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View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?

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  • I've never worn a bike helmet

    163 10.40%
  • I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped

    88 5.61%
  • I've always worn a helmet

    609 38.84%
  • I didn't wear a helmet, but now do

    389 24.81%
  • I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions

    319 20.34%
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  1. #6701
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    I know you served up the "Well, I did use protection" joke on a platter, but I'm too classy for that sort of thing.
    ....I got a chance to speak with her. She says you're a big disappointment in the sack, and not to call. Stay classy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat
    Only a few find the way, some don't recognize it when they do - some... don't ever want to.

  2. #6702
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    FB

    Im saying that if the b'crats see enough people wearing helmets, they will stay off our backs. I may want to ride without a helmet in a local park on my trike.
    I understand what you're saying, however by bowing down to them doesn't get them off your back, they will find more and more regulations to strap you with because they know you will continue to bow to them. So by bowing down to them they increase the pressure of being on your back, it has the direct opposite effect you're trying to achieve.

  3. #6703
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    This is silly. You say this like everybody who gets into a collision with a car always dies. Not all collisions are with "speeding steel".
    Sure. But if it's some low speed affair that results in a simple fall then it is not really much different than a simple fall caused by something other than a car. Which, statistically, makes it extremely unlikely to be fatal.

    Cycling deaths are overwhelmingly by high speed interactions with automobiles. Believing that helmets are at all helpful in those situations is akin to believing in the tooth fairy.

  4. #6704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Sure. But if it's some low speed affair that results in a simple fall then it is not really much different than a simple fall caused by something other than a car.
    You actually don't know this (it's not actually true: it could be significantly worse than a "simple" fall, whatever you mean by "simple"). You are just making stuff up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Which, statistically, makes it extremely unlikely to be fatal.
    ??? So, you think helmets are only supposed to prevent fatalities. Bizarre.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Cycling deaths are overwhelmingly by high speed interactions with automobiles.
    I don't think I've ever seen a good compilation of all cyclist deaths. The statistics of cyclist deaths associated with automobiles is easy to find (http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811743.pdf).

    Here's a reference to "almost 800" total (presumably) cyclist deaths in 2010: http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Bicycle/ The number of cyclist deaths involving other vehicles in 2010 is 623 (78%). I'll stipulate that that is "overwhelming".

    About 30% (2011) deaths occurred in the evening and 23% (2011) had cyclists with BAC of .08 g/dL. I don't have the numbers at hand but I recall that many of the cyclists who are killed weren't wearing helmets.

    You have no basis for the claim that helmets would not have saved some of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Believing that helmets are at all helpful in those situations is akin to believing in the tooth fairy.
    Who here is making that claim? Looks Iike another straw man.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 01-08-14 at 12:30 PM.

  5. #6705
    Newbie Aj Mick's Avatar
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    Cycling to get around since 1961, and have never worn a helmet. Would wear one if I was into competitive cycling. Looks like i will be required to wear one when I return to the land I was born in, New Zealand. It has become the law since I last lived there….. click on the link.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8427624.stm

  6. #6706
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    Hi there, when you discuss so heat about the helmet wearing habits, I would like to know how do you choose your helmet light for night riding? You know, there are so many lights in the market, I am so confused by a various of lights brand, like Lupine, Light & motion, moon light, lezyne and others. Should I take a high lumen light for my helmet or? I start my riding some months ago and have no idea about it. Recently I saw some introduction about Xeccon Spiker lights, how about its quality?

  7. #6707
    Strong Walker martl's Avatar
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    As a cyclist, you will always be the weaker part of any kind of crash, and the headgear you chose to wear is going to change nothing with that, ever.
    More safety for cyclists is a desirable goal, but focussing on dresscode is the wrong way to start.

  8. #6708
    vol
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    Quote Originally Posted by martl View Post
    As a cyclist, you will always be the weaker part of any kind of crash, and the headgear you chose to wear is going to change nothing with that, ever.
    More safety for cyclists is a desirable goal, but focussing on dresscode is the wrong way to start.
    Exactly. So many cyclists have been killed despite wearing helmets, thanks to careless/aggressive/impaired drivers, faulty road conditions, failure to use bike lights at night, violating traffic rules, etc., etc.. And for those whose philosophy is, "It's always safer to wear a helmet than not, and why not since it does no harm?", why don't you also wear a body armor, since it could have saved some lives and "does no harm", either? It could make you much more injury-proof.

    cat armor1.jpg cat armor2.jpg cat armor3.jpg


  9. #6709
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vol View Post
    Exactly. So many cyclists have been killed despite wearing helmets, thanks to careless/aggressive/impaired drivers, faulty road conditions, failure to use bike lights at night, violating traffic rules, etc., etc.. And for those whose philosophy is, "It's always safer to wear a helmet than not, and why not since it does no harm?", why don't you also wear a body armor, since it could have saved some lives and "does no harm", either? It could make you much more injury-proof.

    cat armor1.jpg cat armor2.jpg cat armor3.jpg

    Please, get over this already, this has been repeated around 100 times and you go over the same old boring schit again that has been proven to be faulty thinking the same 100 times.

    I wish the moderator would close this thread, how many times and how many ways can one argue helmets are good or helmets are bad? This is falken ridiculas.

    MODS...CLOSE THIS THREAD!

  10. #6710
    vol
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
    Please, get over this already, this has been repeated around 100 times and you go over the same old boring schit again that has been proven to be faulty thinking the same 100 times.

    I wish the moderator would close this thread, how many times and how many ways can one argue helmets are good or helmets are bad? This is falken ridiculas.

    MODS...CLOSE THIS THREAD!
    So why do you continue to come here and post? I visit this place only a handful times in my life so far, yet have seen many a post by you here.

    Last edited by vol; 01-17-14 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Added the quote to which the reply is directed after #6717 indicates this to be necessary.

  11. #6711
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    People on the pro-helmet side come here to try and make people think about the consequences of not wearing a helmet compared to when you wear one, if people are thinking of not wearing one... Will a helmet save your life in every crash? Certainly not... BUT, on average, wearing a helmet results in a "better" (or not as bad) outcome when things happen... JMO as I have experienced in my life...
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  12. #6712
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
    People on the pro-helmet side come here to try and make people think about the consequences of not wearing a helmet compared to when you wear one, if people are thinking of not wearing one... Will a helmet save your life in every crash? Certainly not... BUT, on average, wearing a helmet results in a "better" (or not as bad) outcome when things happen... JMO as I have experienced in my life...
    Well, no. People on the "pro-helmet" side come here to try to force everyone else to conform to their beliefs, and when that fails, call names. And now, apparently, to demand that the discussion not be allowed at all.

  13. #6713
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Well, no. People on the "pro-helmet" side come here to try to force everyone else to conform to their beliefs,
    and when that fails, call names. And now, apparently, to demand that the discussion not be allowed at all.


    ....listen carefully, we have the following list of twelve demands. None are negotiable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat
    Only a few find the way, some don't recognize it when they do - some... don't ever want to.

  14. #6714
    Mister Bleak! mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Well, no. People on the "pro-helmet" side come here to try to force everyone else to conform to their beliefs, and when that fails, call names. And now, apparently, to demand that the discussion not be allowed at all.
    I'm vaguely pro-helmet, and I come here to poke holes in the arguments of both sides. It's fun. Too easy to rile up the fanatics. FWIW, I put people like Rekmeyata, Rydabent, and NJKayaker in the same category as Meanwhile, closetbiker, razrskytr, skye, etc.--fanatics who will distort facts to make a point and whose views should be thoroughly discounted; silly people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus regarding mconlonx View Post
    You, I don't generally think of you as clueless. You're kind of ok.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  15. #6715
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    six

    You are so wrong. Im not trying to "force" anyone to wear a helmet. Nor am I for MHLs. Im only pointing out that ANY injury that is prevented by a helmet is a good thing.

  16. #6716
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vol View Post
    rekmeyata, so why do you continue to come here and post? I visit this place only a handful times in my life so far, yet have seen many a post by you here.

    You don't have much of a point in regards to the helmet thing do you? So what does it matter to you how often I come on this forum? I didn't know you were the forum ruler and can tell others how often they come. What? you have no place to come and beach so you come here?

  17. #6717
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    I'm vaguely pro-helmet, and I come here to poke holes in the arguments of both sides. It's fun. Too easy to rile up the fanatics. FWIW, I put people like Rekmeyata, Rydabent, and NJKayaker in the same category as Meanwhile, closetbiker, razrskytr, skye, etc.--fanatics who will distort facts to make a point and whose views should be thoroughly discounted; silly people.
    Your reading abilty is pretty awful. I haven't made any claims about how well helmets work. No one really knows. And I don't care whether people wear helmets or not.

    Maybe, you are whinging about me pointing out that your claim that bicycle safety classes would be more useful is contradicted by your experience that people don't take them even if they were free!
    Last edited by njkayaker; 01-17-14 at 11:39 AM.

  18. #6718
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    I'm not a helmet wearer, but have never tried to talk folks out of helmets.

    One unfortunate feature of the helmet thread is that it merges two completely concepts into one thread.

    Helmet wearers should have a forum where they can discuss various helmets, comfort, features, weight, level of protection, etc. There are many products out there, and they can exchange ideas including things like which helmets fit which shaped heads best. There shouldn't be discussion of whether helmets are needed since that decision has already been made in the affirmative.

    Then there should be a separate thread where we can discuss, debate, or argue issues such as whether helmets are really necessary, the extent to which they save lives, whether must wear laws make sense, etc.

    Folks who are committed helmet wearers should stay off this thread, or at least refrain from the "a helmet saved my life..." proselytizing. However, those who feel must laws make sense would be free to discuss that.
    FB
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  19. #6719
    vol
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
    You don't have much of a point in regards to the helmet thing do you? So what does it matter to you how often I come on this forum? I didn't know you were the forum ruler and can tell others how often they come. What? you have no place to come and beach so you come here?
    See my edited version above and the reason for editing.

    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    Im only pointing out that ANY injury that is prevented by a helmet is a good thing.
    What injury prevented by what is not a good thing? (Such as injury prevented by a body armor or bullet vest?)

    Last post to this thread: I think that had there been no suggestion to make wearing helmet a requirement to all, this thread and the debate would not have started.

  20. #6720
    Cycle Dallas MMACH 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vol View Post
    ...
    Last post to this thread: I think that had there been no suggestion to make wearing helmet a requirement to all, this thread and the debate would not have started.
    Except that would be a one-sided debate. The people posting to this thread who argue for MHLs is miniscule.
    If it's part of the debate, why isn't it part of the poll? I'd honestly like to see a poll on who actually does want MHLs. Unfortunately, the thread it would be attached to would just get rolled into this monster thread and the poll data wiped.
    That's gonna leave a mark.

  21. #6721
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Then there should be a separate thread where we can discuss, debate, or argue issues such as whether helmets are really necessary, the extent to which they save lives, whether must wear laws make sense, etc.
    The antihelmet crowd here has shown no real ability to discuss this. They often use the same tactics that they criticise the prohelmet crowd for using.

    And nearly no one here is for "must wear laws".

    The antihelmet crowd just assumes that people who think helmets are useful are for such laws. I guess they do that because it's easier to argue against that strawman.

  22. #6722
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    Quote Originally Posted by vol View Post
    Last post to this thread: I think that had there been no suggestion to make wearing helmet a requirement to all, this thread and the debate would not have started.
    Yes, people somewhere have argued for (and passed) mandatory helmet laws (MHL). People (like closetbiker) assume that people who are prohelmet are for MHL. That's a false assumption.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
    If it's part of the debate, why isn't it part of the poll? I'd honestly like to see a poll on who actually does want MHLs.
    If I recall correclly, there was such a poll a long while ago (I inspired it). If I recall correctly, it indicated that very, very few people here were for MHL.

  23. #6723
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    The antihelmet crowd here has shown no real ability to discuss this.

    And nearly no one here is for "must wear laws".

    The antihelmet crowd just assumes that people who think helmets are useful are for such laws. I guess they do that because it's easier to argue against that strawman.
    I don't believe that most helmet wearers would push for must wear laws, but I doubt that many would speak against them. The process by which this kind of law gets passed isn't always logical. It's hard to argue against any feel good, or safety laws as it is. With any proposed law we have people who push for, those actively against, and a vast body of people who are agnostic because the law wouldn't affect them either way. In the case of helmet laws, these would include those who don't ride bikes at all, and those who already wear helmets. So in that context, it would only take pressure or support from a small segment of the population to convince a legislator that his bread is buttered on the "yes" side.

    However you missed the intent of my post. That wasn't to make the helmet thread any less acrimonious, but to give helmet wearers a "cleaner" forum to discuss helmets form the standpoint of those who chose to wear them already. Every once in a while buried here is some rational discussion of helmet design improvements. It would be nice to see them not so buried.
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  24. #6724
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    Quote Originally Posted by vol View Post
    What injury prevented by what is not a good thing? (Such as injury prevented by a body armor or bullet vest?)
    This isn't really a good argument. It's very, very common to prioritize head injuries over other injuries. Also, there are large costs "body armor/bullet vests" for the benefits they provide.

  25. #6725
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    I don't believe that most helmet wearers would push for must wear laws, but I doubt that many would speak against them.
    This could be true (I don't know).

    The problem is that an anti-helmet argument isn't going to be convincing if it keeps assuming that the person it is trying to convince holds an opinion that they do not hold.

    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    However you missed the intent of my post. That wasn't to make the helmet thread any less acrimonious, but to give helmet wearers a "cleaner" forum to discuss helmets form the standpoint of those who chose to wear them already. Every once in a while buried here is some rational discussion of helmet design improvements. It would be nice to see them not so buried.
    No, I got your point (I don't disagree with it).

    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Then there should be a separate thread where we can discuss, debate, or argue issues such as whether helmets are really necessary, the extent to which they save lives, whether must wear laws make sense, etc.
    Such a thread would devolve into the thread that already exists because most of the antihelmet people it would atttract have no ability or interest in having a real discussion about this.

    Keep in mind that the mods here have a lot of experience with this. It's also a problem that occurs elsewhere.

    The point of creating this cesspool is that this discussion can't be kept from being a cesspool and having one cesspool to manage is just easier than letting a thousand cesspools bloom!
    Last edited by njkayaker; 01-17-14 at 12:25 PM.

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