View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
178
10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
94
5.63%
I've always worn a helmet
648
38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
408
24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
342
20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll
The helmet thread
#4576
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this makes me think about getting a new one..
#4577
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Lets try again for a reasonable logical answer from the anti helmet people.
I grant you the point that the chances of having an accident where a helmet will protect you is pretty remote. The question then remains-------------why not wear a helmet? The question is never addressed directly by them. If they answer at all they will come back with the idea that helmet stiction will twist a persons neck. So I ask you in what percent of cases will that happen?? The point remains that wearing a helmet is so benign, in the admittedly in the few cases that a low speed accident does occur, wouldnt wearing a helmet be worth it to prevent even slight injury? Why have any injury at all???
I grant you the point that the chances of having an accident where a helmet will protect you is pretty remote. The question then remains-------------why not wear a helmet? The question is never addressed directly by them. If they answer at all they will come back with the idea that helmet stiction will twist a persons neck. So I ask you in what percent of cases will that happen?? The point remains that wearing a helmet is so benign, in the admittedly in the few cases that a low speed accident does occur, wouldnt wearing a helmet be worth it to prevent even slight injury? Why have any injury at all???
#4578
Senior Member
Lets try again for a reasonable logical answer from the anti helmet people.
I grant you the point that the chances of having an accident where a helmet will protect you is pretty remote. The question then remains-------------why not wear a helmet? The question is never addressed directly by them. If they answer at all they will come back with the idea that helmet stiction will twist a persons neck. So I ask you in what percent of cases will that happen?? The point remains that wearing a helmet is so benign, in the admittedly in the few cases that a low speed accident does occur, wouldnt wearing a helmet be worth it to prevent even slight injury? Why have any injury at all???
I grant you the point that the chances of having an accident where a helmet will protect you is pretty remote. The question then remains-------------why not wear a helmet? The question is never addressed directly by them. If they answer at all they will come back with the idea that helmet stiction will twist a persons neck. So I ask you in what percent of cases will that happen?? The point remains that wearing a helmet is so benign, in the admittedly in the few cases that a low speed accident does occur, wouldnt wearing a helmet be worth it to prevent even slight injury? Why have any injury at all???
Before we begin, however, I want you to answer a question of mine. Since you agree that the chances of having a crash where a helmet will protect you is remote, and that you wear a helmet anyway to protect you against that rare occurence, why is it that you don't wear a helmet in other circumstances where the chance of head injury is greater, as is the ability for a helmet to protect you? I'm thinking particularly of driving an automobile, but situations such as climbing a ladder when making home repairs and taking a shower also come to mind.
#4579
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Answering a question with a question is a classic avoidance technique.
But to address your intellectually lazy inquiry, (and this has been addressed multiple times, as well) we all choose what level of risk we are willing to put ourselves in. Just because we don't wear safety goggles every time we fire up a power-drill, doesn't mean we quit wearing our seat belts.
But to address your intellectually lazy inquiry, (and this has been addressed multiple times, as well) we all choose what level of risk we are willing to put ourselves in. Just because we don't wear safety goggles every time we fire up a power-drill, doesn't mean we quit wearing our seat belts.
#4580
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I have no issue with anyone who decides they don't want to wear a helmet. If you don't want to wear a helmet, then don't. Why do you need to justify it here?
Several of the bare-head brigade have stated that their only problem is with mandatory helmet laws and that they should not be forced to wear a helmet. If this is the case, then whether a helmet can be helpful or not is immaterial. So, making the "bicycle helmets are worthless*" argument is pointless. Regardless of their effectiveness, you should not be forced to wear it.
Is there anyone on the pro-helmet side, in this thread who have argued that we should have mandatory helmet laws? If not, then who are the bare-headers arguing with and why are they arguing so vehemently?
*Siting studies about emergency room injuries with or without helmets is pretty ridiculous. Unlike automobile accidents which are almost always reported, if someone has a bicycle accident and the helmet protects their head, they will not, in all likelihood be going to an emergency room or reporting the accident to anyone. Thus, nearly all the reports you'll be able to find will be incidents of helmet failure, misuse or non-use. Meaning the real-world stats will always be skewed.
Several of the bare-head brigade have stated that their only problem is with mandatory helmet laws and that they should not be forced to wear a helmet. If this is the case, then whether a helmet can be helpful or not is immaterial. So, making the "bicycle helmets are worthless*" argument is pointless. Regardless of their effectiveness, you should not be forced to wear it.
Is there anyone on the pro-helmet side, in this thread who have argued that we should have mandatory helmet laws? If not, then who are the bare-headers arguing with and why are they arguing so vehemently?
*Siting studies about emergency room injuries with or without helmets is pretty ridiculous. Unlike automobile accidents which are almost always reported, if someone has a bicycle accident and the helmet protects their head, they will not, in all likelihood be going to an emergency room or reporting the accident to anyone. Thus, nearly all the reports you'll be able to find will be incidents of helmet failure, misuse or non-use. Meaning the real-world stats will always be skewed.
#4581
Senior Member
Your question actually has been addressed, and multiple times.
Before we begin, however, I want you to answer a question of mine. Since you agree that the chances of having a crash where a helmet will protect you is remote, and that you wear a helmet anyway to protect you against that rare occurence, why is it that you don't wear a helmet in other circumstances where the chance of head injury is greater, as is the ability for a helmet to protect you? I'm thinking particularly of driving an automobile, but situations such as climbing a ladder when making home repairs and taking a shower also come to mind.
Before we begin, however, I want you to answer a question of mine. Since you agree that the chances of having a crash where a helmet will protect you is remote, and that you wear a helmet anyway to protect you against that rare occurence, why is it that you don't wear a helmet in other circumstances where the chance of head injury is greater, as is the ability for a helmet to protect you? I'm thinking particularly of driving an automobile, but situations such as climbing a ladder when making home repairs and taking a shower also come to mind.
#4582
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skye
This is a bike forum, and talking about safety equiptment in other forms of transportation is moot.
Second I have biked for at least 68 years, and until 2 years ago I had never been hit by a car. Then I was, and my helmet saved me from injury. Since there is really no good reason not to, why not wear a helmet.
This is a bike forum, and talking about safety equiptment in other forms of transportation is moot.
Second I have biked for at least 68 years, and until 2 years ago I had never been hit by a car. Then I was, and my helmet saved me from injury. Since there is really no good reason not to, why not wear a helmet.
#4583
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mmach
While I am pro helmet, and alway wear one, I do NOT believe in mandatory helmet laws.
How ever my bike club requires helmets on our sponsored rides. A while back when I asked what the anti helmet crowd does when faced with that rule, one apparently really bull headed person said he wouldnt ride. I guess if you want to be that anti social------------------------
While I am pro helmet, and alway wear one, I do NOT believe in mandatory helmet laws.
How ever my bike club requires helmets on our sponsored rides. A while back when I asked what the anti helmet crowd does when faced with that rule, one apparently really bull headed person said he wouldnt ride. I guess if you want to be that anti social------------------------
#4584
Senior Member
I don't think there ever was anybody on here in this thread that said there should be a MHL... I think many pro-helmet wearing people used to believe (may still believe) that a helmet was/is great, and was the main line of defence in a crash. (I know I did)... now after being on this thread for a while I think it's the last line of defence, and while I learned here that a helmet maybe nowhere near as good as it should/could be I still think it's better than nothing... So from that perspective this thread is helping to spread the news that a helmet should not be the main thing to rely on and I agree, riding defensively, riding within your skill, riding on routes which are more bike friendly, and so on, can be more beneficial than a helmet... BUT, when the head does actually bounce off the pavement, it is still better to wear a helmet than not, thus wearing one is a good thing... JMO
#4585
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mmach
While I am pro helmet, and alway wear one, I do NOT believe in mandatory helmet laws.
How ever my bike club requires helmets on our sponsored rides. A while back when I asked what the anti helmet crowd does when faced with that rule, one apparently really bull headed person said he wouldnt ride. I guess if you want to be that anti social------------------------
While I am pro helmet, and alway wear one, I do NOT believe in mandatory helmet laws.
How ever my bike club requires helmets on our sponsored rides. A while back when I asked what the anti helmet crowd does when faced with that rule, one apparently really bull headed person said he wouldnt ride. I guess if you want to be that anti social------------------------
Because it comes for you, I take that as a compliment.
#4586
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2. They cost money.
3. They need to be resized to wear some hats underneath them and they're tough to fit some hoods over.
4. They are a pain in the behind to tote around if you have a lot of stops to make, say multi-store shopping trips, multiple classes to attend during a day, etc.
5. Styrofoam is bad for the environment.
Just some ideas from a part time helmeteer. I got a new helmet a few months ago, but didn't wear it today. Rode approx 20 miles in 10 different trips.
#4587
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Oh, how could I forget the hair. OMG the hair!!!!
#4588
Senior Member
Why would you tote it around? You should wear it around -- walking is proven to be very dangerous, and although not certified as a walking helmet, a bicycle helmet may help in the case of light to moderate head injury sustained during a fall, the leading cause of head injury.
#4589
Senior Member
I knew it, I just knew that would be one of the the "real" reasons... For people with hair anyways, for people without hair I guess those stripes can be quite annoying I hear...
Last edited by 350htrr; 01-31-13 at 09:40 AM.
#4590
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I don't think there ever was anybody on here in this thread that said there should be a MHL... I think many pro-helmet wearing people used to believe (may still believe) that a helmet was/is great, and was the main line of defence in a crash. (I know I did)... now after being on this thread for a while I think it's the last line of defence, and while I learned here that a helmet maybe nowhere near as good as it should/could be I still think it's better than nothing... So from that perspective this thread is helping to spread the news that a helmet should not be the main thing to rely on and I agree, riding defensively, riding within your skill, riding on routes which are more bike friendly, and so on, can be more beneficial than a helmet... BUT, when the head does actually bounce off the pavement, it is still better to wear a helmet than not, thus wearing one is a good thing... JMO
__________________
"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen
Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen
Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
#4591
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I wear a hellmunt while cycling my bicycle because it is one more step toward my goal of wearing a full robotic exoskeleton. Also because my wife makes me.
#4594
Senior Member
That's a reasonable explanation. for me, it's not a good thing, or a necessary thing. what I try to tell people is, wear a helmet if you want, but it's really not necessary for a commuting situation, and it won't protect you from very much. be aware of what the helmet can and can't protect you from, and base your safety not on the helmet's "powers" but your own powers of observation, riding skills, and judgement. those things are much more important (by a factor of a zillion) to your safety than a helmet.
Last edited by 350htrr; 01-31-13 at 09:11 PM.
#4595
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I am personally acquainted with people who were either saved from serious injury by wearing a helmet or suffered traumatic brain injury when not wearing a helmet.
One is a coworker who was hit from behind by a speeding motorist one night on the street adjoining our workplace. He was fully lit up, and traffic was light. The impact totaled his bike and batted him off the road like a whiffle ball. Somewhere in there, his head hit something, because his helmet was good and busted. He walked away. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say he might not have fared as well if the impact that broke his helmet had been applied directly to his head. I realize that it is difficult to infer this with scientific confidence without running controlled experiments wherein a representative sample of cyclists is divided randomly into helmet and non-helmet groups, both to be struck from behind by the same speeding idiot, and their injuries measured quantitatively and the differences subjected to tests of statistical significance. Such a study seems impractical on a number of levels, so I'll just take my colleague's experience under advisement in the old fashioned, non-Cartesian way.
Another friend was mountain biking without a helmet on local trails in suburban Pennsylvania. He doesn't remember what happened, but neighbors found him wandering the streets near the trailhead in a confused state and bleeding from the scalp. He spent the following weeks in a coma and underwent several surgeries to relieve intracranial pressure. He recovered but was later diagnosed with early onset dementia.
I realize that this narrative is well comprised by the dreaded term "anecdotal evidence," which, as all good empiricists know, "doesn't prove anything." It firmly belongs in that genre known pejoratively as "horror stories." Still, I have found them somewhat compelling on a personal level.
One is a coworker who was hit from behind by a speeding motorist one night on the street adjoining our workplace. He was fully lit up, and traffic was light. The impact totaled his bike and batted him off the road like a whiffle ball. Somewhere in there, his head hit something, because his helmet was good and busted. He walked away. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say he might not have fared as well if the impact that broke his helmet had been applied directly to his head. I realize that it is difficult to infer this with scientific confidence without running controlled experiments wherein a representative sample of cyclists is divided randomly into helmet and non-helmet groups, both to be struck from behind by the same speeding idiot, and their injuries measured quantitatively and the differences subjected to tests of statistical significance. Such a study seems impractical on a number of levels, so I'll just take my colleague's experience under advisement in the old fashioned, non-Cartesian way.
Another friend was mountain biking without a helmet on local trails in suburban Pennsylvania. He doesn't remember what happened, but neighbors found him wandering the streets near the trailhead in a confused state and bleeding from the scalp. He spent the following weeks in a coma and underwent several surgeries to relieve intracranial pressure. He recovered but was later diagnosed with early onset dementia.
I realize that this narrative is well comprised by the dreaded term "anecdotal evidence," which, as all good empiricists know, "doesn't prove anything." It firmly belongs in that genre known pejoratively as "horror stories." Still, I have found them somewhat compelling on a personal level.
#4596
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The direction of this thread, of late would indicate that your acquaintances both need to work on their cycling skills. Clearly if they knew how to control a bicycle and fall properly, (or bounce off a car properly) they wouldn't need a helmet.
#4597
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Actually, the thread should have helped you understand that the "A helmet saved my (or my my friend's) life!!!" stories are essentially meaningless because there was no control: nobody is willing to perform the experiment again without the helmet. (The sorry part is that Groucho claims to understand that but is going to go with it anyway.)
But hey, if you find that line of debate unpersuasive, then let me tell you that I know a guy who fell with no helmet and was fine, and I know a guy who crashed with a helmet and died. So I guess that proves that helmets kill cyclists. Right?
But hey, if you find that line of debate unpersuasive, then let me tell you that I know a guy who fell with no helmet and was fine, and I know a guy who crashed with a helmet and died. So I guess that proves that helmets kill cyclists. Right?
#4598
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Maybe helmunts do kill bicyclers. We can't even guess without a controlled experiment.
#4599
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Groucho has a good point. Lets have specific reports on how a helmet has killed someone. Names places and hospital reports.
#4600
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Helmets didn't exist when I started riding back when I had rubber bones.
But when I returned to riding 30 years later (after moving out to the burbs from living in big cities with rapid transit), I got one, for sure.
The roads here, it's the least one can do to provide a little protection against the unexpected.
But when I returned to riding 30 years later (after moving out to the burbs from living in big cities with rapid transit), I got one, for sure.
The roads here, it's the least one can do to provide a little protection against the unexpected.