Ritterview

I have a Campagnolo 13-29 Record 10 speed cassette, which I run with 50-34 chainrings.

Because of the compact crank, I wear out the 13, 14, and 15 cogs really fast. So, I've replaced these, as the more expensive titanium larger cogs are still fine.

I haven't been able to find a 13t cog however. I see 13A cogs available, but these can't be the first position cog. First position 12t (12A-1P) cogs are available. The 13t first position has a part number, 10S-023 (page 63), but what few sites list these are out of stock.


12A-1P................................................................................ 13A

• Are 13t 10S-023 cogs available somewhere?
• If not, would it work if I used a 12A-1P, and had a jump from 14t to 12t? (I wouldn't mind a 12)
• Can I use a non-Campy, like a Miche?
• If I have to purchase an entire cassette just to harvest the small cogs, is there any difference in quality between Veloce, Centaur and Chorus?

Homebrew01

You'll be fine with the Veloce, Centaur, Chorus.

You need to find someone who lives in the mountains and wears out their big cogs, then buy their used cassettes.

DaveSSS 

You won't like a 12-14 jump. I'm curious if the wear is from use with the 34 ot 50T ring? The difference between a 50 and 53 is less than the difference between a 12 and 13.

I'd be lost without my 11T, but I do use a 12-27 (11 speed) in the winter. If forces me to spin more on some of the descents.

Buying several of the smallest cogs might cost more than an entire Centaur or Veloce cassette.

https://www.shinybikes.com/bikes/camp...-cassette.html

Ritterview

The 13-29 cassette cogs are as follows:

13-29 (13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29)

If I won't like a 12 to 14 jump, would I tolerate a 14 to 16 jump by having:

(12-13-14-16-17-19-21-23-26-29)?


My wear is mainly on the 50 ring.

A Centaur is around $100, and a Veloce closer to $50. Is there any difference in the smaller cogs between these?

Also, can anyone tell me if a Miche first position 13t cog would work?

DaveSSS 

The Miche cog should work to some degree, assuming it's a first position cog with the locring serrations, but there could also be a timing issue that may make the shifting less than perfect. All you can do is try it. Th eonly spacing that makes any sense is 12-13-14-15-17-19...

I made that spacing with the 12-15 from a 12-25 and the rest from a 13-29, but the timing problem at the 15-17 made for a lousy shift at that point.

I did something similar with 11 speed, combining the 11-15 from a 11-25 with the rest from a 12-27 and it worked far better at the 15-17 shift.

Have you read my postings about using several chains in a rotation in order to prolong cog life and get more mileage from each chain? Leaving a single chain in use to too long is the most common cause of chain skip when a new chain is installed. Alternating between several chains is the solution to that problem.

Ritterview

I actually have the same problem on two different 13-29 cassettes, so I am going to adopt your solutions on both.

• On my 13-29 cassette, I am going to get a 12t-1P, and ditch my 16 cog, so as to have 12-13-14-15-17-19... as you recommend.
• On my wife's 13-29, I am going to order a Miche 13t first position cog, and see how that works.

DaveSSS 

If you buy a 12T first position cog, you'll also need a 13T second position.

Mr. Fly

A little bit off topic but I recently got a 2009 Veloce cassette. As many know, starting from 2009, Campagnolo effectively downgraded their cassette line by one level so that the 2009 Centaur is effectively identical to the 2008 Veloce and so on. Anyhow, all the individual cogs on my 2009 Veloce cassette have this plating that looks like galvanization (not a good thing) except for the 1st position cog, which retained its nice silver nickel-plated finish not unlike my older 2008 Centaur cassette cogs.

operator

There's also an upfront cost associated from purchasing several chains that likely exceeds the cost of everything up to and including 105 level cassettes. Assuming 10 speed. You're not getting anymore life out of the chain than usual. It's still going to skip, and it's still going to wear to that point where it skips. You're really only prolonging the life of the cassette, if it's true that worn chains increase the wear rate on the rear. If not then

DaveSSS 

operator....

I can't agree with that at all. The longest I ever used a Campy chain was 6,000 miles. At that point it was really worn beyond the point that I'd toss a chain these days. The roller spacing had increased from .200 to .240 and and the side clearance was about twice that of a new chain, but it never skipped, even on the most worn cogs. That chain had so much wear that the roller at each end fell out when I took the master link off to clean the chain.

There is no additional cost to buying several chains at one time. If you're smart and get them on sale, then they could be far cheaper than the price paid a year or two later. On the whole, prices for every item just increase, year after year - it's called inflation. If you buy your second or third chains to use with a cassette at a later date, they are not likely to be cheaper.

FWIW, I bought 9 Campy 11 speed chains for my 3 bikes and paid about $35 each for them. You can't get one that cheap today.

It's far more common for people to change chains more often than needed and get no more mileage with 6 chains than I get with 3.

The most common skipping scenario is a brand new chain on worn cogs. If a chain just starts skipping after a lot of use, I'd expect a huge amount of elongation, perhaps 2%. Either that or the cassette is a cheap model made from soft steel that wouldn't last very long long no matter how often the chain was changed. Ti cogs wear similarly - very fast and there's little that can be done to help that.

I should add another comment for the OP. Those worn cogs that skip with a new chain will most likely work just fine if you put them back on after using that new chain for only a few hundred miles with the new cogs and not get any chain skip. I found that out from experience myself.

Homebrew01

I haven't kept careful records, but rotating chains seemed to work for me too.

And you might also save on shipping in the long run when you order in bulk.

HillRider

I'm also dubious about the value of the three chain roatation process. Given that you continue to use a cassette until all three chains are similarly worn to the useless point, how long does a cassette last?

DaveSSS 

With the 3-chain rotation, the cassette should last for the life of all three chains. That will obviously vary greatly depending on the quality of the chain, the maintenance technique, riding conditions and the rider's power output. There's nothing sacred about the number 3. If I was using any chain other than Campy, then 4 might be more practical, since they all elongate far faster and I might trash them with fewer miles on them.

In my case, I would expect somewhere in the 4-6,000 mile range from each chain. If I was was to use any of those chains for that long without changing the chain, I'd be very likely to get chain skip when the second new chain was installed and the cassette life would equal that of one chain, instead of 3-4. I learned that the hard way when I used one chain for 4,000 and another for 6,000 without a change. I wore out cogs on both cassettes.

I did follow my own advice and didn't trash the least worn, all steel cassette with only a worn 19T cog. I continued to use it on my winter bike. I just couldn't put a brand new chain on it. A chain with 300 miles of use worked just fine.

HillRider

I must be particularly easy on drivetrains. I currently have a 9-speed Shimano HG73 chain running on a 9-speed 105 cassette on one bike with 8200 miles and a Wippermann 10-speed chain on a Veloce 10-speed cassette with 5800 miles on another. Both chains measure 12-1/32" over 24 pins and my Park CC-3 chain checker agrees as the .75% tab comes nowhere near fitting into the interlink gaps. Both bikes shift very well with no skipping on any of the cogs.

These two chains are typical of my past history as I once put over 10,000 miles on a Shimano IG90 8-speed chain and 105 cassette before worry, rather than excessive elongation, made me replace them.

I'm not a terribly strong rider but adequate and weigh about 150 so I'm not a Clydesdale but not a featherweight either. I ride a lot of hills out of necessity and am considered a fairly good climber. I'm also a gear masher rather than a spinner. My chain maintainance is reasonable but not excessive.

Why do my chains last so long or why do others go through them so fast?

DaveSSS 

A 9 speed chain has more pin and bushing area and more roller width, so it will last longer. An 8 speed would last even longer.

If a ruler shows 1/32 inch of elongation per foot, that's .25%. Your chain checker showing .75% is wrong, like all of them are. The extra "wear" is the increase in roller spacing

The 10 speed chain I trashed at 6,000 miles showed about 1/64" of elongation over 12 inches or only about 1/16" over it's entire length. Calipers showed the rollers to be extremely worn, with the space between the rollers increase from .200 inch to .240 and the side clearance to be about .013 inch or nearly twice that of a new chain. IMO, that chain was shot. Some people choose to trash chains after only 2,000 miles becasue they think the side clearance makes the chain sloppy enough to affect the shifting precision.

I tested a Shimano DA chain and a KMC chain a couple of years ago. I rode each for 2500 miles and projected that they would reach a true .5% elongation after only 3500 miles for the Shimano chain and about 4,000 for the KMC. I'd never reach that much elongation with a Campy chain before it expired due to other types of wear.

I just read a posting from a rider using 11 speed who claimed that his roller spacing was only .215 inch with no measureable elongation over 12" after 4500 miles. I've seen that much wear after 2000 miles on my 11 speed chains. That rider also weighs about 35 lbs more than I do.

Chain life always varies, due to the many reasons I've mentioned. A chain ridden in dusty, gritty conditions may not last long, even if lubed after every ride and cleaned weekly. My roads are certainly on the gritty side. There's a lot of sand used in the winter and it's not all cleaned up until late May or early June. Even then we don't get the heavy rains needed to wash the roads (Denver). I do a lot of climbing, with 10 miles of my 50 miles route being a mountain climb, plus quite a few hills.

I'd be curious to know what lube you use. I've used various home brew mixes of synthetic oil with naptha or mineral spirits for about the last 10 years. Lately, I've used 80W synthetic gear lube, thinned with naptha. I apply it every 100 miles at the minimum and wipe the exterior of my chain after every ride.

HillRider

Yes, true but the Wippermann is a "Campy" 10-speed chain

You didn't read what I wrote. I said my Park chain checker's .75% tab wouldn't fit into the chain's spacing so it confirmed the lack of wear.

I've been using a home-brew version of ProLink for many years. It's a 3:1 by volume mix of OMS and 10W-30 Mobile 1 synthetic oil. Typically, I wipe the chain down with a rag to remove the surface dirt, flood it with the lube, wipe off the excess with a rag to further clean the chain and reapply the lube a second time and let the solvent evaporate. I apply it about every 300 -400 miles on each of my chains.

My riding area isn't particularly abrasive (no sandy beaches or salt spray) but it isn't pristine either. Typical mid-west residential, city and rural roads with their standard grit and dust and occasional rain. Admittedly, my rain bike chains don't last nearly as long.

Wow, talk about thread drift!

DaveSSS 

Sorry, I misread, but there's a big difference between .25% and .75%. The only chain checker I ever owned ( and threw away) had variable readings from 0-1%, as dial was turned. I like to use calipers, for measuring the roller spacing, but there is no need to measure very often. With a chain rotation, I just like to get each chain off before the roller spacing increases by more than .020. I don't take any risks with 11 speed, having the narrowest chain and thinner cogs (same 1.6mm as Shimano 10).

With both of us using basically the same lube, my roads must be dirtier than yours. I relube my chains far more often than most people and always wipe before lubing. With 11 speed, I can't take a chain off for cleaning unless I use a less than perfect fitting master link. That's what I've done on my winter bike. The chain just got too dirty, even after only 100-150 miles. The sand is everywhere right now.