Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Lacing - Front Radial - Head in or Out ?

Search
Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Lacing - Front Radial - Head in or Out ?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-04-13, 01:15 PM
  #1  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,843

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times in 612 Posts
Lacing - Front Radial - Head in or Out ?

I just built a front radial wheel, 50 mm carbon tubular, 18 spokes. For some reason (better bracing angle ?) I built it with the heads in/elbow out, but am now second guessing it. Looks like the nipples are angled a bit more than ideal in the spoke hole. Elbow in would give a little straighter angle for the nipple. I'm contemplating undoing each spoke 1 at a time and switching them. Is it just a theoretical advantage 1 way or the other ?
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Old 07-04-13, 01:23 PM
  #2  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,355 Times in 862 Posts
You pick... I only have radial spokes on my Brompton front wheel, they are head out
to have more clearance , between the fork tips, which are already Narrow.


74mm wide hub, 349 16" wheel.. 28 spokes..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 07-04-13, 01:37 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: boston, ma
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
depends on the clearance. i usually do heads out because i don't have the fork with me to see
reptilezs is offline  
Old 07-04-13, 01:43 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,688
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 222 Posts
Heads-in does give an easily measurable laterally stiffer wheel - which isn't much use to you unless you think your current wheel is too floppy.

Heads-out gives a nice aestethic effect, particularly if there's a colour difference between the spokes and the hub. And supposedly better aero.
dabac is offline  
Old 07-04-13, 02:50 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,724

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5791 Post(s)
Liked 2,581 Times in 1,431 Posts
Lacing radial is one of those jobs that requires the use of a quarter.

Toss the quarter to decide, heads in or out. Like you did, I build all my radials elbows out to maximize bracing angle. Many (most?) builders builders build them elbows in to reduce the aero profile.

The reality is that it barely (if at all) makes a difference either way, so no sweat. Yes, the elbows might need to be set to correct the angle at the hub, but this is no different that what happens witn many tangential patterns so that doesn't matter either.

Originally Posted by Homebrew01
. I'm contemplating undoing each spoke 1 at a time and switching them. .....
Don't bother. This wheel will probably outlast you anyway. In any case the spoke will take a set where it leaves the nipple, and isn't likely to fail there. Misaligned nipples are a more serious issue when there's lots of spoke twist during the build, which works the bend back and forth.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

Last edited by FBinNY; 07-04-13 at 03:10 PM.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 07-04-13, 03:03 PM
  #6  
-
 
seeker333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,865

Bikes: yes!

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked 38 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by Homebrew01
...Looks like the nipples are angled a bit more than ideal in the spoke hole...
You can adjust the angle slightly by bending the spoke near the head (pull), although I don't think it matters much.
seeker333 is offline  
Old 07-04-13, 05:46 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
mrrabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,504

Bikes: 2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 35 Times in 30 Posts
Heads-out minimizes aesthetics damage should you decide later to change to a crossed interlaced lacing...

Also, often times going heads out results in unsupported elbows - mostly with cheaper spokes - resolved using spoke head washers...

Head-inside as already noted provide sightly better bracing...

=8-)
__________________
5000+ wheels built since 1984...

Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
mrrabbit is offline  
Old 07-04-13, 05:55 PM
  #8  
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
 
Jeff Wills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,842
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 808 Post(s)
Liked 711 Times in 379 Posts
Originally Posted by Homebrew01
I just built a front radial wheel, 50 mm carbon tubular, 18 spokes. For some reason (better bracing angle ?) I built it with the heads in/elbow out, but am now second guessing it. Looks like the nipples are angled a bit more than ideal in the spoke hole. Elbow in would give a little straighter angle for the nipple. I'm contemplating undoing each spoke 1 at a time and switching them. Is it just a theoretical advantage 1 way or the other ?
Since you've already built the wheel, leave it be. The spokes have bent a little extra at the elbow if you've tensioned the wheel properly, and re-lacing them head-out will straighten that bend out. Bend 'em back & forth enough will create fatigue.

You could start over with new spokes and lace 1/3 of the wheel head-in and 2/3 head-out. You could tell everyone that Sheldon Brown told you to do this at a seance.
__________________
Jeff Wills

Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills is offline  
Old 07-04-13, 06:16 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,724

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5791 Post(s)
Liked 2,581 Times in 1,431 Posts
Originally Posted by Jeff Wills


You could start over with new spokes and lace 1/3 of the wheel head-in and 2/3 head-out. You could tell everyone that Sheldon Brown told you to do this at a seance.
A friend laced a radial wheel alternating heads in and out on general principles. Whenever anyone asked he'd explain that ALL wheels are laced alternating heads in and out, and radials aren't an exception. Some even bought it.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
echotraveler
Folding Bikes
7
01-01-17 11:41 PM
calamarichris
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
9
10-25-16 03:33 PM
TheNeed4Speed
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
47
05-26-14 09:03 PM
Rob13
Road Cycling
4
09-14-11 11:05 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.