jetboy 

I was looking for a decent (english) saddle for my english bike.. but did not want to pay the premium for a brooks. sorry.

So with a bit of ebay sleuthing I snagged a well used lycett L'Avenir pro for $24 (including shipping). Do they stack up to the quality and comfort of brooks?

USAZorro

Never owned or used one, but it looks quite similar to a Wright's. Wright's made good saddles, but the leather's thickness and durability weren't generally as good as Brooks' - hence the lower prices.

clubman 

The older Lycett(s) the better in my experience. Only you will know if it's comfortable.

dweenk

For $24 including shipping - buy it and try it. If nothing else, it looks good on the wall of your garage.

rhm

Lycett was owned by Brooks. Your saddle, like Brooks and Wrights, came in both a standard and narrow version. So if it's the narrow, it's the same as a Wrights W3N and almost the same as a Brooks B5N. The frame is the same as that used on B.15 or B.17 saddles, but no eyelets in the bag loops. Like a Brooks or Wrights saddle, it may have a date code stamped on the underside of the cantle plate (73 C, for example, would mean 3rd quarter of 1973).

In terms of quality, I believe the leather is of a somewhat lower grade than a B.15, but at this point --your saddle is 40 or 50 years old-- the present condition of the leather is probably more important than its original quality level. We can only guess how it will hold up; I've seen many saddles tear right in half, though they looked as good as yours only moments before they tore. if that happens, be sure to save all the pieces, and sell them to me.

dicken74

i just picked up an almost identical saddle. There is no date stamp on the bottom. Just says "Made in England." Do you happen to now when these Lycett L'avenir models were in production?

jetboy 

I don't know but mine has cleaned up well and is on the holdsworth. hasn't cracked in half yet anyway!

bertinjim 

jetboy -

Saddlewax.com has an extensive site dedicated to saddles. Lycett is linked here. rhm is right about Wrights. They and the Lycetts used thinner leathers which meant they broke in quicker but didn't seem to last like the Brooks. I had a Wrights W3W that was, perhaps, the most comfortable saddle I've used but it simply didn't compare with my B17 for sustained, comfortable durability.

dicken74

Thanks for that link. Very interesting deep dive on saddles. But none of the catologs he has listed the Lycett L'Avenir model. Would still love to find out what years they were in production.

jetboy 

i have a brooks, and an ideale, and I am not so sure about the lower grade, at least not on the L'Avenir - it seems at least as solid. but as you say, after 40 years or so - if its still working then it must have been one of the good ones!

rhm

I don't know, but I can speculate!

The Lycett L'Avenir appears to correspond to the Brooks 'Competition' (not to be confused with the B.17 Competition Standard). If you can figure out when they made those, I think you'll know when they made L'Avenir.

dicken74

I think you're on to something. I just found this Brooks Competition for sale on ebay. It's a dead ringer for the Lycett L'Avenir. No background info though ...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BROOKS-COMPETITION-PEBBLE-TOP-LEATHER-SADDLE-NOS-/261828195683?hash=item3cf62d3563:g:gtgAAOSw34FVFoZ8

rhm

Yup, that's what I'm talking about! I have a ruined one at home. I'll try to remember to look at it, see if there's a date on the cantle plate.

dicken74

Just found this thread online. This guy is restoring a 73 Raleigh and apparently the Competition came standard on that model. Brooks Competition saddle restoration. | Retrobike

There are some great pics from the 73 catalogue and it looks like the Competition in the catalog pic.

bertinjim 

There is a Brooks Competition saddle for sale on the Vancouver, BC Craigslist. The cantle is stamped A 77 which the seller identifies as a 1977 manufacturing date. The link is here. My brother rode Competitions in the mid-70s as well, if that helps date things.

Camplex

I think you'll like the saddle, though you should certainly keep looking also.. You got a good deal and it pays to find such deals, though one also may want to splurge every now and then. If only to satisfy those cultivated curiosities, take a look at those vintage Brooks' you find in old British catalogs..like the old Tourist with the spring loop in front.

Comfort will be a relative thing and I don't think any one company has a monopoly on that! I bought a Wrights for $15 a couples of weeks back (I'll post a pic) with a small rip in the leather. It was very flexible, broken-in, and well-used. Anyway, I tightened the tension bolt and lathered up the leather, and while it isn't the prettiest/doesn't look like a Brooks, it is darn comfy. Unfortunately, its unsurpassed comfort doesn't reside in harmony with the kind of durability one will find in other saddles. (In afterthought, perhaps comparable to a B17 that has broken-in and conformed to one's butt-I don't know..)

noglider 

Brooks saddles are actually a good value when you amortize the price over the years of service it provides.

jetboy 

nice eye rhm it does seem to be a virtual clone of the competition. people have but forth that brooks bought Lycett at some point. perhaps they just put lycett names on brooks models- and perhaps with a lesser grade leather. - or conversely, Brooks took the lycett model and rebranded it a brooks.

rhm

I checked my worn out 'Competition;' it is dated A77.

I don't know the earlier history of these companies, especially Lycett, but it had been swallowed up by Brooks by 1960. I assume this was all part of the consolidation of the British bicycle industry (in short, TI had bought up many companies including Reynolds, Accles & Pollock, Norman, Hercules, Phillips, etc by the mid 50's; and finally bought up Raleigh as well, and then closed many of the redundant companies, after which bicycles bearing the Hercules, Phillips, Norman, etc brands were made by Raleigh). I assume the saddle industry followed the same pattern: Wrights had once been a separate company, and a competitor to Brooks; after the consolidation it was a Brooks-owned brand. Whether they maintained their own manufacturing facility or not, after the consolidation they used Brooks hardware (same frames, same nose pieces, same rivets, etc). I have seen a couple Lycett Swallow saddles dated 1959 that are exactly the same as Wrights Swallow saddles of the 60's.

bertinjim 

rhm-

You've nailed it. It was the dread spectre of British "badge engineering" where a change of brand label supposedly created a new and distinct product. Think Morris-Austin-Innocenti-Riley-Vanden Plas automobiles as well.

McBTC

That saddle may be >50 years old.