Can you help me with this frame (Nervex lugs)?
11-11-15, 01:39 PM
#1
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Can you help me with this frame (Nervex lugs)?
So it has Nervex lugs, Simplex and Huret derailleurs, Campagnolo bottom bracket and Universal mod. 61 brakes. I first thought it to be a Mercian, but not really sure anymore.
The frame number is difficult to see, but the beginning is: 58*64*022 and after that it's too vague, * stands for a little marking between the numbers, couldn't see if it's a number or a letter. Is it possible to identify the manufacturer by the frame number?
I hope you can help me!
Some pictures:
The frame number is difficult to see, but the beginning is: 58*64*022 and after that it's too vague, * stands for a little marking between the numbers, couldn't see if it's a number or a letter. Is it possible to identify the manufacturer by the frame number?
I hope you can help me!
Some pictures:
11-11-15, 02:20 PM
#3
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I don't see anything that rings a bell. Is that the number you read off the bottom bracket, under NERVEX? If so, that's the model number of the bottom bracket shell, giving frame angles and such. Doesn't tell us anything about the frame.
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11-11-15, 02:26 PM
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That looks like an Andre Bertin frame from the 1960's.
Bertin used this style of swagged seat stay tops up into the 1980's.
The numbers stamped into the Nervex bottom bracket shell are the angles not a serial number.
The "serial numbers" stamped into most French bikes are untraceable and have no basis in reality! Use them for lucky Loto numbers!
The lugs look like an early short point version of these Prugnat Type 62D not Nervex.
The frame was probably made for Ron Kitching for sale in the UK. It a has British thread bottom bracket.
Andre Bertin and Ron Kitching shared the Milremo brand name for components and accessories. Ron Kitching also sold Bertin frames.
Bertins for sale elsewhere would have had French threads.
The dropouts look like old forged Simplex style.
verktyg
Chas.
Bertin used this style of swagged seat stay tops up into the 1980's.
The numbers stamped into the Nervex bottom bracket shell are the angles not a serial number.
The "serial numbers" stamped into most French bikes are untraceable and have no basis in reality! Use them for lucky Loto numbers!
The lugs look like an early short point version of these Prugnat Type 62D not Nervex.
The frame was probably made for Ron Kitching for sale in the UK. It a has British thread bottom bracket.
Andre Bertin and Ron Kitching shared the Milremo brand name for components and accessories. Ron Kitching also sold Bertin frames.
Bertins for sale elsewhere would have had French threads.
The dropouts look like old forged Simplex style.
verktyg
Chas.
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 11-11-15 at 04:20 PM.
11-11-15, 03:46 PM
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11-12-15, 12:22 PM
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That looks like an Andre Bertin frame from the 1960's.
Bertin used this style of swagged seat stay tops up into the 1980's.
The numbers stamped into the Nervex bottom bracket shell are the angles not a serial number.
The "serial numbers" stamped into most French bikes are untraceable and have no basis in reality! Use them for lucky Loto numbers!
The lugs look like an early short point version of these Prugnat Type 62D not Nervex.
The frame was probably made for Ron Kitching for sale in the UK. It a has British thread bottom bracket.
Andre Bertin and Ron Kitching shared the Milremo brand name for components and accessories. Ron Kitching also sold Bertin frames.
Bertins for sale elsewhere would have had French threads.
The dropouts look like old forged Simplex style.
verktyg
Chas.
Bertin used this style of swagged seat stay tops up into the 1980's.
The numbers stamped into the Nervex bottom bracket shell are the angles not a serial number.
The "serial numbers" stamped into most French bikes are untraceable and have no basis in reality! Use them for lucky Loto numbers!
The lugs look like an early short point version of these Prugnat Type 62D not Nervex.
The frame was probably made for Ron Kitching for sale in the UK. It a has British thread bottom bracket.
Andre Bertin and Ron Kitching shared the Milremo brand name for components and accessories. Ron Kitching also sold Bertin frames.
Bertins for sale elsewhere would have had French threads.
The dropouts look like old forged Simplex style.
verktyg
Chas.
thanks very much Chas. for you usual outantding information!
as soon as i saw that seat stay cap and the other details i thought "french" but then noticed the british thread bb. mystery solved!
frame likely dates from the early 1960's as it is fitted with a campag record bb for 3/16" ball which was only produced for one year in the early '60's.
11-12-15, 11:45 PM
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That looks like an Andre Bertin frame from the 1960's.
Bertin used this style of swagged seat stay tops up into the 1980's.
The numbers stamped into the Nervex bottom bracket shell are the angles not a serial number.
The "serial numbers" stamped into most French bikes are untraceable and have no basis in reality! Use them for lucky Loto numbers!
The lugs look like an early short point version of these Prugnat Type 62D not Nervex.
The frame was probably made for Ron Kitching for sale in the UK. It a has British thread bottom bracket.
Andre Bertin and Ron Kitching shared the Milremo brand name for components and accessories. Ron Kitching also sold Bertin frames.
Bertins for sale elsewhere would have had French threads.
The dropouts look like old forged Simplex style.
verktyg
Chas.
Bertin used this style of swagged seat stay tops up into the 1980's.
The numbers stamped into the Nervex bottom bracket shell are the angles not a serial number.
The "serial numbers" stamped into most French bikes are untraceable and have no basis in reality! Use them for lucky Loto numbers!
The lugs look like an early short point version of these Prugnat Type 62D not Nervex.
The frame was probably made for Ron Kitching for sale in the UK. It a has British thread bottom bracket.
Andre Bertin and Ron Kitching shared the Milremo brand name for components and accessories. Ron Kitching also sold Bertin frames.
Bertins for sale elsewhere would have had French threads.
The dropouts look like old forged Simplex style.
verktyg
Chas.
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11-13-15, 12:41 AM
#9
verktyg
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Did you see this thread? The bicycle has some French attributes, but not a French threaded BB.
"The frame was probably made for Ron Kitching for sale in the UK. It a has British thread bottom bracket.
Andre Bertin and Ron Kitching shared the Milremo brand name for components and accessories. Ron Kitching also sold Bertin frames.
Bertins for sale elsewhere would have had French threads."
Also, check this out:
MKM Cycles - History
"The late 1960s Jaques Anquetil frames advertised as “specially threaded to british standards” were manufactured in France by Andre Bertin as were some of the early Ron Kitching frames".
Pages from the 1963 Ron Kitching Catalog showing Bertin Frames:
BTW, we imported Andre Bertin bikes from 1975 until the early 80's.
verktyg
Chas.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 11-13-15 at 12:55 AM.
11-13-15, 01:00 AM
#10
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No, it's most likely a Bertin frame sold by Ron Kitching in the UK made with with British threads.
Bertin also made a few frames with the Kitching marque but most Ron-Kit frames were made in the UK. Some were even made in house.
See post #9 below....
verktyg
Chas.
Bertin also made a few frames with the Kitching marque but most Ron-Kit frames were made in the UK. Some were even made in house.
See post #9 below....
verktyg
Chas.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
11-13-15, 11:18 AM
#11
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Wow! You guys are really good! Didn't expect to find so much information.. thank you very much!
I guess this one is too much a longshot: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ing-frame.html
I guess this one is too much a longshot: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ing-frame.html
11-13-15, 12:25 PM
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@USAZorro Did you see this thread? #4
"The frame was probably made for Ron Kitching for sale in the UK. It a has British thread bottom bracket.
Andre Bertin and Ron Kitching shared the Milremo brand name for components and accessories. Ron Kitching also sold Bertin frames.
Bertins for sale elsewhere would have had French threads."
Also, check this out:
MKM Cycles - History
"The late 1960s Jaques Anquetil frames advertised as “specially threaded to british standards” were manufactured in France by Andre Bertin as were some of the early Ron Kitching frames".
Pages from the 1963 Ron Kitching Catalog showing Bertin Frames:
BTW, we imported Andre Bertin bikes from 1975 until the early 80's.
verktyg
Chas.
"The frame was probably made for Ron Kitching for sale in the UK. It a has British thread bottom bracket.
Andre Bertin and Ron Kitching shared the Milremo brand name for components and accessories. Ron Kitching also sold Bertin frames.
Bertins for sale elsewhere would have had French threads."
Also, check this out:
MKM Cycles - History
"The late 1960s Jaques Anquetil frames advertised as “specially threaded to british standards” were manufactured in France by Andre Bertin as were some of the early Ron Kitching frames".
Pages from the 1963 Ron Kitching Catalog showing Bertin Frames:
BTW, we imported Andre Bertin bikes from 1975 until the early 80's.
verktyg
Chas.
Aha ! thats interesting !
apologise to OP for slight thread hijack (nice frame !)
The kitching/anquetil/bertin connection has me intrigued .
I have a purplish Jacques Anquetil frame that has "made in England" hidden right down the bottom of the seat tube.
I have always thought it was 1960s ?
Any thoughts on who may have made it ?
Also what year ?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/704884...57632342450644
11-13-15, 12:32 PM
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@1simplexnut - have you checked the fork for alignment with the HT? It looks slightly bent to my eye but could be the angle of the picture.
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11-13-15, 03:19 PM
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@1simplexnut - have you checked the fork for alignment with the HT? It looks slightly bent to my eye but could be the angle of the picture.
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