Stevensb 

This frame started life yellow but was badly repainted in red. There are no signs of decals or tubing stickers. The frame and fork have matching serial numbers (10180). Stamped DO and fork ends indicate a lower quality frame. Spacing is 100/120. BB shell is 68mm and had a Zeus BSA BB in it, which came out easily but was full of rust, dirt and petrified grease, and it takes a 27.2 seat post. Not much for braze ons - water bottle and rear cable stop.

Someone thought enough of the frame to hang some nice parts on it: Campy headset, Pat 71 NR RD, no date code Campy cranks (pre '72?), Campy pedals, Campy brake levers and 1 remaining brake caliber, old logo Cinelli stem and criterium bars, etc.

The cranks were secured with Zeus bolts which caused some initial panic due to their 16mm size but I was fortunate enough to secure a Zeus crank bolt removal tool.

I like the lugs and the fork crown.

Untitled by BJ Stevens, on Flickr

Untitled by BJ Stevens, on Flickr

There are more pictures here.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/116749...57676950580915

Any ideas on its make?

thanks.

Brad

desconhecido 

Strange, just recently there was a thread about a possibly forged Bob Jackson (turns out to be authentic, I believe) with what appears to be a very, very similar fork. Looks just like the fork on my 74/75 Falcon. None of the rest looks like my Falcon, though. Must have been several British makers using that fork crown at the time. The Jackson also had similar, if not identical, rear dropouts. The Jackson serial turned out to be 11801.

Doesn't the 27.2 post imply db 531? Should be worth saving if it's not damaged.

zukahn1 

The Fork, rear dropouts and lugs would seem to indicate a high end British bike from 70's.

non-fixie 

Nice find, Brad! I'd have picked that up too. No idea what it is, though. Will be following with interest.

juvela

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Have you discovered any markings on steerer?

W/B mount looks to be an add-on.

Suspect we are looking at the early seventies.

In photo, serial appears to read 10180. Is this correct?

Format & placement may prove a clue for the Brit-O-philes.

Like others, am suspecting possible JRJ product.

From appearance, would not assume yellow to be original finish. Looks as though it may represent a respray as well... But then U R the one on the scene!

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Stevensb 

@juvela I've removed some of the paint from the steerer and not found any markings other than the lines visible above the s/n. I will remove the rest tomorrow.

S/n looks to be 10180 to me.

Not sure what JRJ is.

I think the yellow is the original colour.

Untitled by BJ Stevens, on Flickr
thanks.

Brad

bulldog1935

While the paint is totally shot, the frame doesn't look that bad.
I agree high-end Brit, 70s, and probably Bob Jackson. Think I would take it down bare and start over.
bikecult.com/bikeworks nyc/archive bicycles/bob jackson track

devinfan

Great find! Can't wait to see it cleaned up. Sure doesn't look low end to me. Love the fork crown. Lugs don't look to shabby either! Love the colour as well. I don't think those dropouts are low end, I think they are just very early vertical drops.

juvela

Thank you for this additional information.

With regard to paint finish -

Note that there are two shades of yellow yet no primer on steerer or crown. However there is light grey primer on fork ends. This makes me think frame may have been blasted or otherwise stripped and painted yellow without a complete primer coat. Sign of a non-professional job.

Also possible there may have once been chrome.

When you remove the paint from the 1060 dropouts you should be able to read the Campagnolo name stamped therein. Their launch was 1967 when they appeared in catalogue nr. 15 of that year, page 31.

With regard to badging we should keep in mind that if a JRJ product it could just as easily have been badged with any one of their three marques. Following the fire at the Merlin facility they acquired the rights to that name.

Brad - JRJ is one of Bob Jackson's badges.

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JohnDThompson 

The dropouts appear to be Campagnolo 1060 vertical dropouts, which were popular with British builders in the 1970s.

Stevensb 

Looks like @JohnDThompson got it right on the dropouts. Maybe this isn't such a low end frame after all.

Thanks to all for your help so far.

Brad

Hint of things to come. by BJ Stevens, on Flickr

Stevensb 

There is Bob Jackson on the bay right now that seems to share many traits with this mystery frame. The serial number placement and style, lugs, fork crown, rear chain stay bridge, seat cluster and dropouts all appear to be the same although the bike on the bay is nicely chromed which mine isn't.

There's no tubing sticker on the bay bike or mention of tubing type in the description but maybe something will become apparent on mine when I get round to stripping the existing paint off.

Mystery solved?

thanks.

Brad

1973 BOB JACKSON CUSTOM FRAME ALL ORIGINAL CAMPY 59cm | eBay

unworthy1

weird how 2 of these show up within a week of each other, send the serial number to Bob Jackson, betting you have a match to the black machine, maybe a year or 2 separating production, and different lugs but same DOs and fork:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...tery-bike.html
Congrats!

verktyg 

The OP has a classic British Time Trial style frame. The vertical dropouts allowed for short chain stays and the round fork blades where probably more of a traditional thing. Round blades are supposed to be more laterally stiff.

I picked up this old Alpine frame that was made about 1975. It's very similar to the OP frame except for the fork. It was built in the UK perhaps by Tom Board???

I put it together for climbing the hills near where I live with a lot of old parts that I had on hand.

Didn't realize that it was a criterium frame until I took it out on the first ride. The wheelbase is about 38", the BB is 11" high and the angles are 75°. There's also a lot of toeclip overlap!

The handling is super twitchy which would be a benefit in a criterium.

verktyg

Chas.

repechage

I am not sure it is a Bob Jackson, the fork crown does not have any internal reinforcements as I have seen on those bikes with 22 mm round blades, note the head lugs too, the reinforcement rings are in place, very un Bob Jackson. I agree it is British. Be interesting to see it set on the level with wheels and tires.
I like it.
The under color may be original, careful wet sanding of the red at the typical transfer locations may reveal evidence of the brand.

bulldog1935

yes, a heads up, I saw a Bates path racer frame, estimates 60s with the same fork crown:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/clayto...shares-RwchS7/

unworthy1

look again: not the same forkcrown on the "Bates", just similar.

Stevensb 

Bob Jackson Cycles responded to my email to say that s/n 10180 is one of theirs from the early '70s. I've done a bit more exploration to look for signs of transfers / decals with no luck so far.

@repechage asked to see the frame with wheels so here it is. It is a 55cm ctc seat tube, 56cm ctc top tube and about a 100 cm wheel base. Centre of BB to ground is 27cm. (the measurements in inches are 21.5, 22, 39.5 and 10.5)

These measurements are very similar to the Le Croco I have although its wheel base is ~1.5 cm shorter than what may be the Bob Jackson. I think of the Le Croco as a crit bike, but I'm not sure if i'm right on that count. The wheelbase on the mystery frame is about 1.5" longer than @verktyg 's Alpine so I don't know if that is sufficient to move the mystery frame into another category of frame.

Untitled by BJ Stevens, on Flickr

Le Croco - 1980's by BJ Stevens, on Flickr

Bad Lag

Your fork seems to have a lot more rake than the Le Croco bike. It could be just that.

The head tube angle looks more shallow, too, and that would also contribute to stretching the wheelbase.

Look at the gap between the tire and the bottom of the down tube.

repechage

don't get that specific, the fork is loose in the frame and not centered in the head tube. But the fork rake is more road expected visually than anything else, and while the rear wheel is what looks like the center of the dropouts, not super tight there either.
We are making the assumption that it is built for 700c, not 27".
My guess the bike will be pretty neutral handling. Not a bad thing at all.

verktyg 

I agree with repechage. Looking at the frame with some wheels under it, I'd say that it was for made road or time trial use rather than criteriums.

When that frame was built, most working people in the UK weren't as financially well off as their counterparts in the US. So the cost of a better quality bicycle was a bigger portion of a buyer's income in the UK than it would have been in the US.

Cycling was far more prevalent in the UK.

Many cyclists saved up for a "bespoke" (custom built) bike that they used for different purposes - normal riding and commuting with 27" clinchers plus sport riding like touring, time trials and path racing with "sprints" (tubular tires). They could or did use the same bike with a single speed freewheel, fixed gears, an internal geared hub or with derailleurs.

Another consideration, from what I've read, complete bikes were taxed at a higher rate than a bike built from a bare frame and individual components (VAT sales tax). That made custom frames or top quality off the rack frames more desirable.

Round forks were a popular anachronism on a lot of sporting bikes well into the 1970's - for example most Hetchins came with round fork blades!


Back to the fork crown... It's most likely the same crown that was sold by Milremo see picture below.

Milremo was a trade name shared by Ron Kitching in the UK and Cycles Andre Bertin in France. Milremo was a contraction for Milan-San Remo, an early season classic race held in Italy.

Milremo was a marketing operation - they didn't make anything but had a wide variety of cycling products private labeled. The product offerings differed for the UK and French markets.

It's hard to say who made the round fork crown on the OP's frame since Milremo bought from so many sources.

The first picture shows my all original 1971 Hetchins Italia that was custom built for a local northern California woman when she was living in the UK. Different crown but round fork blades...

BTW, Reynolds 531 round fork blades were the same tubes as used for chain stays only bent with varying amounts of rake. They were provided in both 7/8" (22.2mm) and 22.0mm metric diameters.

verktyg

Chas.