iab

Do tell, whatsoever do you mean? That isn't a stainless lug sitting on my end table? Or that lug wasn't printed by Cloucraft? Or it wasn't $22.47?

Atlas Shrugged

Nice!!! I would dispute that the part is 3d printed in the first place. If on the odd chance it was who finished and polished it? All this for $23.00. Trust me I was born at night but not last night!!!

bikemig 

[QUOTE=Portlandjim;22954374]The '93 Bridgestone RB 1 had that style fork crown as did the '93 Bridgestone MB 1.

wschruba

He's not wrong. Every failure has brought Shimano closer to that reality--lest we forget that Di2 started out as automatic shifting for a 3 speed hub. Novel, neat engineering solution, but wildly impractical, and not particularly 'necessary'.

As someone else mentioned, it was a game of marketing, and Shimano lost that (lets see: Positron, Positron Part 2: Electric Boogaloo, Airlines, Integrated [flat bar] Shifters, et al). Every failure--for the most part--wound up back at the drawing board at a later date. Di2 eventually got honed well enough that it killed, this last year, the cable-driven option at their "race groups". With their consolidation of 'everything else' outside of performance groups into a new, super compatible family...that's edging closer. They've gone all-in on developing an ecosystem that works with a motor that allows you to shift while coasting down (front freewheel, anyone?), and can even talk to specific electronic derailleurs to automatically shift to 'the right' gear.

Will cable equipment disappear? Absolutely not. Will you be able to pick a specific derailleur that has all aluminum parts, and classical pulley sizes? No. They'll produce one pattern that works with all of their stuff. With the release of CUES, the other product will be sunset. It's just a question of how long it is still profitable to run the machinery.

billytwosheds 

This thread started off so interesting with many interesting perspectives (and a grumpy, repetitive/contrarian one).

3d printing has not (and dare I say, will not) reached the level where you find them on everyone's kitchen counter or in their garage. I mean, heck, very few of us have home paper and ink printers any more. The technical skill and knowledge barriers to identifying and drafting up a part, knowing where and how to have it made, and actually putting it to use are too. darn. high.

I love the C&V and will continue to ride what makes me happy. A friend who started racing locally has ongoing issues with his SRAM e-shifting system staying "on" and has reached the staging area multiple times with a dead battery. No shift, no race, no podium. That tech isn't for me, not now at least.

I'd LOVE to see bicycle racing where the rider was required to be their own mechanic. Call it an all-arounder, or something. How many of us have competed at the top level? (*crickets*) How many of us can repair and maintain most features of our C&V bikes? (*many hands raise*)

IMHO mpetry912 nailed it with "The bike is a vehicle to an experience."

What that experience is, is not fully shared by anyone other than you. And that's totally OK.

iab

It is a printed stainless part. It did cost $22.47. Try again. Try harder. Fail harder.

billytwosheds 

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

Have a receipt?

iab

Yes.

billytwosheds 

lol then bring it? (that means "show" it.)

Maybe it's too late for this kind of conversation in Chicagoland.

iab

No, you asked a question, I answered. If you mean show it, then say show it.

And normally I would. But in this case, why don't you design the lug yourself. It is for Columbus XCR tubing. The headtube has a 36mm OD, the top tube has a 31.7mm OD. Wall thickness is 1.2mm. Use the link I provided and get a quote. For calling me a liar you can do the work yourself or you can go **** yourself. I honestly don't care which you do.

mschwett 

that part pictured was not 3D printed with mainstream technology, and could not be 3D printed out of any metal at full size for anywhere near the price you mention.

iab

Incorrect.

billytwosheds 

What a joke

iab

That's what I thought. Complete ignorance.

cudak888 

Would you gentlemen kindly stop waving your bottom brackets around and return to neutral corners? All of this passive aggressiveness isn't hiding what you're really trying to say about each other.

Speaking of which, what has this Grant Peterson thread come to if the flamewars aren't even about Grant Peterson?

In the meantime, since we're losing out on some really productive discourse here, let's get back on track: That's one hell of a price and one hell of a result, and I wouldn't mind trying it myself. iab, did you have to account for any excess tolerances from the 3D printer by upscaling the ID of the part, or were the tolerances in the CAD program 1:1 with the end result? I'd like to try myself and that bit of information would save me some time.

-Kurt

Atlas Shrugged

Actually it exists all around you. Begin with gravel racing, then on to adventure long distance races such as the Badlands etc. finally look at amateur racing all of those categories people self maintain their equipment. Non of them ride C&V gear and if you asked them who can maintain their equipment all hands would be raised. You shouldn’t short change yourself modern tech isn’t so hard to work on. Just like your first fax machine or smartphone probably intimidated you a bit I am sure you caught on with a bit of help.

SurferRosa

cudak888 

SurferRosa

iab

Again, the link I posted has all tolerance information, +/- 0.2mm is the rule of thumb. So yes, of course that has to be factored into the design, a 36mm ID requires a 35.8mm spec. And when the printer comes back with 35.6, it's time to take out the file. The problem I have found is with any and all printers is you can run the exact same part twice and get 2 different results. But for $22.47, I don't care if something goes bad.

I also sent a first gen version to Guige as I don't wield a torch. He had no problems with it other than I didn't take the time to properly finish the ID to a proper spec. But that was not the objective of the brazing. I was more concerned with any inherent design flaws, not tolerances.

cudak888 

Got it. I feel better about hearing about the tolerances first-hand from experience to corroborate the quoted claims from the printer.

I figure a file and die grinder can make quick work of it if it's too small.

-Kurt

mschwett 

at the risk of going further down the rabbit hole here - the part pictured shows no obvious build lines. it looks scuffed and worn from use, suggesting age rather than a recent 3d print. the edges show clear evidence of having been cut by a tool perpendicular to the surface of the material (short tool marks slightly diagonal to the tube axes), the slightly filleted corners do not reveal any directionality to the additive layers, and there is identical surface smoothness on surfaces facing completely different directions and axes. the interior surface seems polished at the edges, with an orange peeling surface elsewhere.

this seems more like the original part which served as a model for a 3d printed part, or if it was 3d printed, it was hand finished so laboriously that all evidence of the build process is gone and highly varied, idiosyncratic tool marks have been created.

that said, craftcloud does have very low prices, and it's gotten quite a bit cheaper than i recall. (we 3d print a LOT of things at full size and at reduced scales out of everything from various plastics to titanium)

i took a few seconds and created an intersection between the tubing diameters you specified with a 1.2mm wall thickness. it's not an actual lug and significantly smaller in surface area (lacking all the decorative bits) and yet it still costs twice as much as you mentioned. would love to see your stl file.

Atlas Shrugged

Thank you for at least using my preferred pronoun. As for the BS that the lug was 3D printed and was $23 as presented well let’s just say I’m skeptical. Remember you were the one trying to school Jim Merz about manufacturing bicycle components.


I’m from Missouri on this one.

SkinGriz

Maybe he should try to get paid to talk instead of sell bikes.

SkinGriz

Why wouldn’t electronic shifting become the standard? No cable to run. Batteries are cheaper and smaller. Moore’s law. Can probably be designed where initial setup is more like calibrating a joystick for flight sim than tuning the cable tension.

Even if I’m not all that interested, I see the appeal from both the manufacturers perspective and the performance riders perspective.

As with disc brakes and thread less stems.

iab

Everything you wrote is incorrect. I will concede the price went up by $0.33.