RobbieTunes

Be specific. Tell us about one C&V bike. One you have or one you want. Make, model, what you know about that particular model. What was it OEM? What might the original price have been? Does it have a following? Are there many left? Are there a lot of them, and why? Things like that.

For example, I hear all the time about the Puegeot UO-8, but I know zilch about it.

My goal is to have a thread that tells us about the bikes. Opinions are fine, but facts are better. I'd love to be able to discuss all kinds of C&V bikes, and know about others besides mine. While individual stories are nice, I'd like to learn about the bikes.

I'm not even going to start off. Feel free, and thanks.

txvintage

Condor. For years they were only available at the shop in London, each hand built. Now each bike is built in Italy, either steel or carbon, and thanks to the interwebz available world wide.

1948 – Monty Young opens Condor Cycles at 90 Gray’s Inn Road
1950 – Condor Cycles opens 211 Balls Pond Road
1960 – Move to larger premises at 144 Gray’s Inn Road
1960 – Era of the Condor Mackeson team, which nurtured top riders such as Colin Lewis and Dave Bonner
1972 – Grant Young, Monty’s son, begins working at Condor in 1972
1980 – Monty Young sets up Paris Lightweight Cycle – frames feature unique style and handsome bi-laminations.
1986 – Condor Cycles support Percy Bilton Pro Cycling Team – racing in a range of Pro tour race
1998 – Move to larger premises at 51 Gray’s Inn Road
1998 – Supports Anglia Sport cycling team. Rider Gary Baker wins several stages of Milk Race
2005 – 'The Condor Years: A Panorama of British Cycling' is published
2006 – Rapha Condor racing team formed
2007 – Reintroduction of the Paris Cycles range – includes Galibier and Tour de France models
2008 – Condor Cycles celebrates 60th Anniversary
2008 – Dean Downing takes National Criterium title on the Condor Leggero
2009 – Kristian House wins National Road Race Championship on the Condor Leggero
2009 – Store expansion and refit

https://www.condorcycles.com/history

Mine is spec'ed with a mix of mostly Athena and some Chorus, but was sold as a frameset (REynolds 753) and was built to choice by the first owner, a nice English gentleman who fancied becoming a racer but abandoned the idea. He was nice enough to bring the bike with him when he immigrated

You can still get a steel framed Condor, or you can go all Carbony if you so wish and lool like the Rapha Condor Pro Continental team.

I wish I had some way of knowing just how many of the earlier steel frames that were only sold in the shop at Gray's Inn Road have made their way to the colonies, but I figure it's a rather exclusive number.

I really need to get a pic with the bike not in TT mode.

RobbieTunes

Perfect. Thanks.

I'll go, then.... Cinelli-made Centurion Equipe.
Project between Centurion (Western States Importers) and Cino Cinelli.
Columbus SL frame except for the larger sizes, then SL/SP.
Chromed head lugs, chromed R stay. The entire frame is chrome plated.
The fork and the R stay, for sure, are polished. My painter says it all is.
Cinelli designed and supervised production of the frameset.
The project used other Italian parts for both price and aesthetic reasons.
The bike was only sold in 1985, and was around $1200.
The major issue of negotiation was the size of the "Cinelli Equipe" decals and their placement.
Cinelli wanted to protect their brand in case the project went awry.
Ofmega Mistral crankset, headset, and bottom bracket.
Universal AER brakeset. Fiamme Hard Silver tubulars laced to Miche hubs.
Cinelli steering and saddle, Gipiemme seat post. NR shifters, FD, RD, Regina freewheel.
Alan Goldsmith was the Centurion rep; he thinks either 75 or 150 were made.
He is certain it was one shipment only.

The most existing in captivity are at 123bikes somewhere in Maryland, I think.
They are priced fairly steep, and he has framesets and complete bikes.

Probably 25-30 exist on our shores. Those being ridden are, for the most part, re-done, as is this full Chorus one.


Next?

pastorbobnlnh 

The Schwinn New World, the lowly cousin of the Paramount and Superior. Like the Superior it was hand fillet brazed, but with Hi Ten straight gauged tubing. It was introduced in the late 1930s and was produced into the 1950s.

It came in several versions:
*With fenders, a chain guard and "Boy Scout" type bars.

*Without fenders or chain guard and with drop racing bars.

*With a SA-AW 3 speed hub and cottered cranks.

*With a coaster brake or caliper brake(s) with a single speed freewheel.

*Or it came with a one piece crank.

Sometime in 1940 or so the rear drops were switched from rear facing to front facing. A New World could be equipped with the Paramount or Superior accessories.

I picked up a 1939 or 1940 New World frameset on NH-CL a few years back. The fork was trashed (remember the curvy fork?). Eventually Bob Hufford supplied me with a spare fork. I built it up as I imagined one, not as any ever came from Schwinn. This winter I plan a major makeover. RHM has supplied the needed fenders.

rhm

Well, since Pastor Bob is talking about Schwinn New Worlds, I will add some of the little I know...

One appeared in the first episode of The Twilight Zone! This is, I think, a stock build:



Mine came to me without its fenders. I picked up a pair of original fenders but despaired of ever matching the paint/patina, so I sold them on to PB in hopes he would fare better with them. I don't know if the drop bar --a Major Taylor bend-- on mine is original. Certainly is very old, though:



The cottered crank takes a standard English thread BB, and therefore is not an upgrade; an ashtabula type crank requires a completely different BB shell.



These are considered fillet brazed frames, and so a forerunner of the fillet brazed chrome-moly frames of the 60's-70's such as the Super Sports. I don't know if that's accurate, though. It is one heavy frame.

nlerner

Raleigh Clubman. Only produced for four model years, 1948-51 (labeled the "Lenton Clubman" in 1948). I learned about them mostly from Peter Kohler's article on RetroRaleighs and from staring at old Raleigh catalogs.



I loved the idea of a internal hub gear bike with Reynolds 531 tubing, and the relative rarity of these bikes made them that much more appealing. My first acquisition was a '51 Clubman, won on eBay before I learned about sniping, and I remember very well the anxiety over whether my high bid would win out:



Not long after, a 1949 Clubman came up for sale, advertised here and one or two other bike lists, and after some negotiation, that one was mine was well:



A year or so later, I was selling a Raleigh on eBay and through the Q/A function, someone asked me about a Raleigh Clubman his dad was trying to sell. It ended up that seller was in the Boston area and after a few months, that 1950 Clubman entered the herd:



Well, last summer I sold off the '51 after coming to the realization that I had far too many bikes. The '50 started off the same blue color as the '51, but it lived near the coast its entire life and the frame and all the chromed bits were heavily corroded. An oxalic acid bath cleaned everything up considerably, but the frame finish is pretty shot. I've toyed with having it repainted (and have a replacement decal set from H. Lloyds), but there's definite charm to that original patina.

In terms of ride, the '49 is the one I've ridden the most and as long as 60 miles at a time. It's a very comfortable bike as I've set it up with upright bars though it's fairly heavy. The '50 needs a bit of work to make it fully road worthy. For whatever reason, I tend to ride my '70s Raleighs outfitted as '50s club bikes more than the actual club bikes!

Neal

KonAaron Snake 

Robbie - this is just an awesome idea and a great thread.

I'll contribute soon...I think I'll toss out what I know about Lotus Odysseys.

Tundra_Man 

The C&V bike I would most like to own is kind of an oddball by the standards of most people on this board. I'd like to find a late 70s Cycle Pro Macho.

Kind of heavy, but indestructable. Not very popular.

In 6th grade I saved and saved my paper route money to buy one second hand from a friend. It was my pride and joy until it got stolen less than a year later. I'd love to have another one just for the memories and to let my son bomb around on it.

I wrote the whole story of this bike on my website: https://www.tundraman.com/Other/Bicycles/ThirdBike.php

OldsCOOL

I know this will get buried in responses to I'm just tossing my dream and desires out in the cyberland of BF C&V....

Someday I want a Colnago. Any old model will do.

My backup plan is to stumble upon a Bianchi Rekord 848 in a thrift shop or garage sale or behind a dumpster somewhere.

rootboy 

I have to admit, before I found this bike I knew nothing about the marque. Prior to coming to an agreement with the original owner I looked them up on the net and what follows I gleaned exclusively from the Classic Rendezvous email list professors, a very knowledgable lot, and a bit from the Classic Lightweights website in the UK. My area of interest was bikes from the 70's and I knew nothing about some of the Italian bikes from the '60's. Frejus was started in 1896 by Emmo Ghelfi and his brother, the company was named, apparently, after the monument in the piazza Statuto in Torino dedicated to the workers who lost their lives building the Frejus rail tunnel under the Alps, completed in 1871. The shop was located near the piazza. I understand the top model Frejus in the '50's was called the Super Corsa but I've seen this model alternately referred to as the Professional model. I bought it from the original owner who told me he bought it in 1963 at the Thomas Avenia bike shop in New York. The sole US importer I believe, which may be why there were not many of them out west where I lived. The bike is outfitted with full Campagnolo Record group set, Universal mod. 61 center pull brakes, Ambrosio bar and stem and Frejus branded fenders and Silca pump. It has non-original saddle, wheels and freewheel on it right now. There is a shop near here that has the track version hanging in the shop. I haven't looked at it closely but he has the original sales receipt from the owner tucked into the crank arms. The original price on that bike was about $235 as I remember. That's about all I know of this bike. I'm sure many here know much more so I defer to any and all who might know more about Frejus or who may take issue with any "facts" listed. Of course, the bike has been on here before. It rides beautifully.

peugeot mongrel

My new every day commuter (I'm grateful for the opportunity to share) is (best I can tell) a mid 80s Coppi, Milano Sanremo made by Fiorelli Brothers. The fork is a late 80s Fausto Coppi built by Fratelli Masciaghi manufacturers. I started with the frame and fork as you see it, chromed and powder coated. I built it with the best I have - a mix of Cinelli bar & stem, Nuevo Record headset, shifters, derailleurs, Grand Sport hubs on Mavic rims, shimano arabesque brakes & crank.
It's my first quality bike. I love this bike - it makes me happy!



Here is a cobbled history. Any addition to it would be very appreciated.

Fiorelli Brothers: Rinaldo, Mario and Lino

Fiorelli bicycles were founded in about 1950, by the three Fiorelli brothers.
They were based in Novi Ligure, Piedmonte, Italy, they are more famous for being the makers, of the Coppi branded bikes. They made the Coppi bikes from about 1958, till they retired in about 1990.

At the age of 37, Fausto Coppi set up a team of his own, Carpano-Coppi squad, sponsored by a famous beverage firm, and riding bikes bearing Fausto Coppi’s name, produced by Novi Ligure-based Fratelli Fiorelli

As for Fiorelli, the firm was completely taken over in the early 90s by the Fratelli Masciaghi manufacturers, whose main goal was to own the Fausto Coppi’s trademark. So the Fausto Coppi bikes are still produced by the Masciaghi firm, although no longer in Novi Ligure, but in the Brianza area of Lombardia."

Giovanni Pelizzoli influence:
In 1969 Giovanni Pelizzoli created the brand CIÖCC. The CIÖCC brand was sold in 1980.
In 1993 the company F.LLI MASCIAGHI, then owner of the brand Fausto Coppi, put Pelizzoli in charge of the design and manufacturing of both their top line racing frames and of the ones for the pros of Team Polti. The pro team included Gianni Bugno, winner of the Flamish Tour, Mauro Giannetti, Mirko Celestino, Richard Virenque, winner of the pois jersey at the TOUR DE FRANCE, Davide Rebellin and Ivan Gotti, winner of Giro d’Italia.

Coppi bikes manufactured frames also for pro women. Special mentions go to Fabiana Luperini, winner of 5 Giro d’Italia and 3 Tour de France, and the street world champions Alessandra Cappellotto and Staruschaia.
In 2005, the team G.S. Alessia, competed with Coppi bikes too and won a Giro d’Italia with Paolo Savoldelli.
Beside all these successes on the streets, my competence was growing also on track frames. Many track champions like Merlon, Martinello, Villa, Risi and Beusc used my frames. Many frames were also built for the Italian Cycling Federation.

Coppi is the flagship racing line of Masciaghi, one of the largest bicycle manufacturers in europe. From it's beginnings in the late 60's, the company grew as a contract builder for other manufacturers (ex-Ciocc ) and produces a full range of products spanning kids bikes, city, hybrid, mountain and high end racing cycles under their own brand names - Fausto Coppi

FAUSTO COPPI - THE LEGEND:

https://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=2629



I have found a pix of this stamp on a Coppi, Milano Sanremo with the Fiorelli frame sticker and the same BB below. Most seem to have Campagnolo drops.



This fork which the PO found and put with the frame suggests newer made by Masciaghi since all examples I found of Fiorelli forks have only a C on the crown.

rootboy 

That's a cool frame. Nice bike.

squirtdad

One I think about once in a while is a white Fuji racing bike....1971 or 72 and absolutlely top end. It was in a small bicyle shop in Havre, Montana where I bought my first 10 speed...an Azuki. I remember lusting after the fuji with it's suntour superbe pro and tubular tires and wondering who in the world was going to by that bike ($400 or $500) in that area. I always imagine it got stuck in a basement and someday someone will discover it at a garage sale or the like and fully appreciate it.

khatfull

Keep this search close: https://www.google.com/custom?num=100...6region_mex%3D

khatfull

'71 or '72 is too early for Superbe Pro. Fuji racing bikes of that time Had V or V-Luxe RDs. PM me for more

khatfull

I'll be honest...I sat for 15 minutes and pondered what I might post here. I think I have some desirable, interesting bikes, but my guess is that most folks here don't put stock into Fujis that they do other marques. There's a couple other "Fuji Freaks" here, and you know who you are...but by and large Fujis don't seem to get the that other brands do.

That said, I'll enter my '72 Fuji Newest.

Fuji was one of, if not THE earliest Japanese marques available in the US which to me is interesting in and of itself...you might consider Fuji the beginning of the bike boom. The early bikes were very "industrial" in nature...although this frame is handmade look at the catalog you'd never think a lot of it:



Astute eyes will notice mine is not dressed in 72 livery. It's dressed in 73, I liked the component mix better

I guess the reason this bike speaks to me so much is the journey from how I got to to where I took it. As bought on eBay:



And as it always goes for me...with help from the Fuji Freaks, JR at VeloCals, and a lot of hard work, she became this:



I purchased this on eBay from the original owner. That in and of itself is interesting to me and as I always do when I've gotten a bike from the OO I always ask if there are any interesting bits about the bike, experiences, they can relay. One thing I always ask is if they remember where they might have bought it:

I tried but that shop evidently no longer exists in Topeka...

An the other fun thing the OO relayed to me:

MY BIKE, ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD!!!!

Anyway, that's my contribution Robbie, hope that's what you were looking for.

gomango

My 25+ year old Zullo Sprint has only had two owners.

The first owner raced for a local shop, and when it was time for a new bike, he chose this Zullo.

It had been sitting on the floor for a while, as very few people had heard of Zullos.

It was built with Campy Gran Sport in its original form, and he ended up racing the bike for season or two.

Then it hung on a hook in his garage for the next ten years.

One day, he decided to do some upgrading. Got ride of the Gran Sport rear derailleur and added a Shimano 600 indexed system.

Also got rid of a very nice tubular wheelset, Record hubs and GL330 rims, with Clement tubulars.

He threw on some clinchers, and a rear aero disc and decided to do some time trialing.

This lasted a full season before the bike went back to the hook in the garage.

Flash forward to the present. I was at the original shop of purchase one day last year and he came in to see if anyone wanted the bike.

No one spoke up except for yours truly.

I bought the bike for a very small amount of cash and started to clean, repack bearings, etc.

My goal was not period correct, but more of a fun, low cost Sunday rider.

I believe I was successful, as she cost me next to nothing.

...and she handles beautifully with her Columbus SL frameset and her new Vittorias.

This is what she looks like as I was dialing her in.











BTW Drillium Dude has contributed some awesome Campy drilled/detailed shift levers that I will add as I continue to finish up the bike. Thanks Jeff!

la traviata

this thread is everything i love about this forum. keep it up!

squirtdad

Khatful..... I stand corrected.... I know/remember it being beautiful and totally overboard for the roads and knowledge/appreciation of people in the area. I was just leaning about bikes other than balloon tire single speeds.... I about wore out my copy of of Anybody's Bike book...and probably still carry notions from that book. And to be truthful, every time I go home (which is tomorrow) I kind of day dream that it is me stumbling across it. In reality what happens is I work on my nieces and nephews bikes and there friends bikes. and watch my dad ride the 3 wheeler we got him

senorpetty

Good to see all of these clubmans out there. Here's my '49.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/67348001@N07/6188313853/

auchencrow

The Dawes Atlantis was a late, great effort to build a classy contemporary racer on the part of an important and historic, if somewhat eccentric old British firm founded in 1906 by Charles Dawes. The Atlantis' I've encountered all dated from the '79-84 period, though I am not certain exactly when its production was actually terminated.

More commonly available in "Sunburst" Blue, it could be had in "Sunburst" red as well - probably a trend setter for the popularity of "fade" finishes by countless other manufacturers in the eighties. Based on a contemporary catalog note, the cost was $550 - and it was the top model offered by Dawes.

Weighing in at 22 lbs and "hand-built" with a double-butted Reynolds 531 frame and fork, the 73-degree parallel-tubed short-wheelbase geometry yields decidedly racy road manners. The lack of rake on the fork contributes some as well. ("Forks bent!" is the inevitable refrain each time one comes up for sale - which is not all that often.)

Goodies on my '81 model included Map of England bars, Weinmann brakes and 700c concaves (replacing what were presumably tubeys), 1st gen Cyclones, Suntour Power shifters, and a 7-speed Suntour corn-cob (useless on the hills here). Mine happens to have a later crank (I believe the original would have been an SR). Earlier builds purportedly came with Compe-V front and VX-GT rear derailleurs.

It is an especially nice frame, and the seat tube sticker attests to the pride in craftsmanship at Dawes. Ironically, it was this very pride, accompanied by a reluctance to cater to the low-end market and their "marriage" to Suntour that left Dawes high and dry in the late eighties. (Other manufacturers suffered the same fate, thanks in part to the public's obsession with Shimano's SIS.)

For those of us who revere these great British marques, the Atlantis is more than a mere footnote: It was an apotheosis, and the concluding chapter for a great British manufacturer. (You can still mail-order a Dawes today but manufacturing is now done in Asia, and these modern, entry level offerings do not resemble those from the glory days.)

iab

The 1940 Bianchi Folgore. On my list to buy but I know of at least one foum member to own one.

In 1940, team Frejus folded and il “trio delle meraviglie”, the trio of wonders, Giovanni Valetti (1938 and 1939 Giro winner), Olimpio Bizzi and Cino Cinelli transferred to team Bianchi. They had a horrible Giro that year. Fausto Coppi went on to win the Giro for the first time that year after Legnano teammate Gino Bartali had a crash. Coppi is the youngest Giro winner at 20 years and 158 days.

1940 was also the introduction of Campagnolo’s cambio corsa derailleur. I can’t definitively say if team Bianchi used it in the Giro but I do know Coppi won on a Vittoria Margherta derailleur. But either way, Bianchi did offer the cambio corsa on the Folgore.

Below is a page from the 1940 Bianchi catalog with a translation.



Folgore

Road racing model – Extra light frame and fork, new design – Racing handlebars with adjustable stem – Rubber grips – Duraluminum brakes with flexible cables – Light alloy pedals – Alloy rear hub with 3 speeds – Campagnolo derailleur – Aluminum mud guards – Chain oiler built into frame – Special Bianchi racing saddle – Celeste paint – Special chrome Bianchi parts – Bianchi chain and freewheel by Regina – Light alloy rims – Pirelli tubular tires 28 x 1 1/8


This is purportedly one of Olimpio Bizzi's team bikes.

ohjonnybegoode

The most interesting bike in my modest collection is my 1982 Schwinn Paramount. This bike is one of the first (using the term loosely) produced at Schwinn’s Waterford facility. Based on the serial number, it was the 10th frame produced in February 1982 and features Reynolds 531 frame and fork
Campagnolo NR derailleurs, Campy seatpost, shifters, crank, headset, Cinelli Handlebars
and Weinmann brakes. Also has Henry James lugs and Cinelli bottom bracket shell.

According to an email I received from Richard Schwinn, approximately 200-400 Paramounts were produced in 1982. Per the 1982 Schwinn Paramount catalog, a complete, custom ordered road/touring frame (I believe this is a road frame) was $2,499, with a custom frame/fork starting at $949.

I wish this frame was about 2 inches larger….

brianinc-ville

I'm gonna bunt:

1960s Bayard ladies' three-speed, made in Belgium.






If what I've been able to gather from the Internet is to be believed, this Bayard company bought the name from the Clément-Bayard company, which produced fine bicycles, motorcycles, and cars in France in the early 20th century (as well as the Cycles Gladiator marque, which has been immortalized by that naked-lady ad poster everybody seems to like).

The exercise of fixing up this bike has been interesting to me primarily as a study in contrasts: I now understand exactly why Sheldon Brown was so enthusiastic about Raleighs, because this one is definitely an inferior version of the breed. Nearly everything about it is cheap, flexy, and poorly chromed. The Altenburger "Brillant" brakes are abysmal, and the levers even worse. Interestingly, for those brakes the rear brake bridge is drilled vertically (i.e., the bolt-hole is parallel to the seat stays), rather than horizontally, which makes mounting fenders a pain.

Still, it has a few good qualities, including fairly extravagant lugs for a low-end bike. The 3-speed hub is a clone of the Sturmey-Archer AW, made by the UK Gear Co. in Birmingham, and appears to be in no way inferior. But since UK Gear didn't stamp the date on 'em like S-A did, it's hard to date this bike exactly.

I've read somewhere that for a few years in the late fifties and early sixties the US had some kind of tariff spat with the UK, which disadvantaged English bikes and put a lot of German, Dutch, and Belgian models on the US market. I'm pretty sure that this was what we got out of it. I do enjoy an obscure brand, but really, a Raleigh Sports is a much better machine.

Poguemahone

1973 Albert Eisentraut Limited, badged CID.

There were certainly more than one of these made. However, "fewer than thirty" were made for the Georgetown Cyclery in DC. As far as I know, all of them were originally painted gray, with crimson decals indicating the shop's two house brands, CID and Alpine. Yellow cut-out windows on the lugs. Crimson is notoriously fugitive and fades over time, which accounts for the dullness of the color in the decals. This is the only example I have seen with CID decals; the rest are labeled Alpine. The gray/crimson mix was the shop racing/team colors.

To ad to the confusion, Georgetown Cyclery contracted to other custom builders over time, and there is a very nice assortment of frames badged Alpine and CID. Many bikes that came into the shop got repainted/rebadged, according to a shop employee from the time. I've seen a few over the years, as I live in the area (90 or so miles from DC). They often have a hodgepodge of components; bikes were stuck together with whatever was in the shop. The early they are, the more confounding the hodgepodge; later CID/Alpine builds have more consistent groups.This one is primarily first generation Dura Ace, with a Sugino drillium crankset. The 3t bars and stem were switched out for some more modern Nittos. The tubing is a mix; hence, no tubing stickers. Saddle is Ideale. Geometry is tight, but the ride is very fast and comfortable.

This particular bike was found in a thrift store several years ago by me. I had it a while before I began to figure out what it was.