Originally Posted by BeTheChange

Way to show your IQ. Hey, maybe we can go hunting sometime and you could have an accident. :-D

Originally Posted by froze

Hey everyone is entitled to their opinions-right or wrong; BUT NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO THREATEN ANOTHER PERSON-joking or not! Keep your comments sane.

Originally Posted by Poguemahone

Saddles are far too personal to make sweeping statements about, sorry. Veganheart, as others have stated, you're likely to have try several different saddles. My arse seems to be perfectly shaped for a Brooks; there doesn't even seem to be a break in period, frankly.

A point: Veganheart has made a choice which in no affects the lives of other posters, or their ability to do as they see fit within the law. Insinuations have been made connecting decisions like Veganheart's to the Unabomber and other like minded luddite psychopaths, as well as various anti-technology luddites. These are nonsense connections, and do nothing to further the arguments of those positing them. In fact, they weaken the arguments the posters hope to make.

In addition, in this difficult and complex world we live in, it is hard to make decisions completely bereft of hypocrisy. We each choose a path we think makes the most sense, and do what we can with the contradictions in values inherent in modern life. Good luck leading the perfect life and never doing anything that conflicts with your moral stances. The next time someone lives a life like that, they'll be the first one to do so.

This isn't sad relativism or moral bankruptcy; it's just a statement of human failings. But better to aim high and miss your goal than to never aim at all.

Lastly, thanks to Merton, for reminding us this thread is about rear ends.

Originally Posted by veganheart

Thanks Poguemahone for a great post! You said it much better than I did.

Yes, I spelled discipline incorrectly and it has been corrected for what its worth.

I would like to thank those who have been a positive voice in the defence of my position. Its nice to know that I am not alone in this. On the whole, this thread seems to correlate pretty well with what I have experienced when discussing these sorts of issues. Some are in agreement or sympathetic and others disagree to the extreme. The challenge for advocates of the environment and animals is that our choice is to sit back and say nothing while great harm and pain is carried out or to speak to try to end or lessen these horrors. I have chosen to be a voice in defence of the earth and the animals b/c they cannot defend themselves. The caveat however, is that I aim to do so peacefully and with respect.

peace and balance

Originally Posted by Dchiefransom

Nice thoughts, but I've just got to ask; Have you found a saddle yet? Sorry for asking something in line with you original question!!

Originally Posted by veganheart

As a vegan I am finding it a bit challenging to find a good quality, extremely combfortable seat. I bought the Terry Liberator for my wife and the sales person assured me that it was not made of leather.

Originally Posted by veganheart

Well, well... haven't we got a nice little discussion goin' on here... I usually try not to get on my soapbox, but since the carnivores have gotten on theirs.... lets get down to brass tacks shall we?

Most of the millions of cows, pigs, sheep, and goats slaughtered for their skin endure the horrors of factory farming—overcrowding, deprivation, unanesthetized castration, branding, tail-docking, and de-horning. At the end of their short, miserable lives, they are stunned, skinned, hung upside down, and bled to death.

The meat industry relies on skin sales to remain profitable. Buying leather directly contributes to factory farms and slaughterhouses since skin accounts for 55 percent of the byproduct value of cattle.

Every time you choose to buy a leather saddle, jacket or leather shoes, you sentence an animal to a lifetime of suffering. Join the millions of consumers who are realizing that "hairless fur" is something we can do without.

Some say yeah but the animals are already dead; why not use their skins?

The animals are dead because there is a demand for their flesh and skin. Once the demand for meat and leather decreases, fewer animals will be killed. By buying leather, you make inhumane treatment of animals profitable, and you "vote" for cruelty with your consumer dollars.

Leather production reaks havoc on the environment and is much worse than synthetics. These are the facts:

Until the late 1800s, animal skin was air- or salt-dried and tanned with vegetable tannins or oil, but today animal skin is turned into finished leather with a variety of dangerous substances, including mineral salts (chromium, aluminum, iron, and zirconium), formaldehyde, coal-tar derivatives, and various oils and dyes, some of them cyanide-based. More than 95 percent of leather produced in the U.S. is chrome-tanned. All wastes containing chromium are considered hazardous by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Tannery effluent also contains large amounts of other pollutants, such as lime sludge, sulfides, and acids.

Although leathermakers like to tout their products as "biodegradable" and "eco-friendly," the process of tanning stabilizes the collagen or protein fibers so that they actually stop biodegrading.

People who work in and live near tanneries are dying from cancer caused by exposure to toxic chemicals used to process and dye the leather. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that the incidence of leukemia among residents near one tannery in Kentucky was five times the U.S. average. According to a New York State Department of Health study, more than half of all testicular cancer victims work in tanneries.

The leather industry uses massive amounts of energy. The Kirk-Othmer Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology states, "On the basis of quantity of energy consumed per unit of product produced, the leather-manufacturing industry would be categorized with the aluminum, paper, steel, cement, and petroleum-manufacturing industries as a gross consumer of energy."

Additionally, to raise the animals whose skin eventually becomes leather, trees are cleared to create pastureland, vast quantities of water are used, and feedlot and dairy farm runoff create a major source of water pollution. Huge amounts of fossil fuels are consumed in livestock production. (By contrast, plastic wearables account for only a fraction of 1 percent of the petroleum used in the U.S.)

Maybe non-leather saddles are not as combfortable as Brooks etc, but given the foregoing, I would rather have a clear conscience and a sore butt.

There you have it folks. That's why I won't buy leather.

Suggestions and advice on the best non-leather saddle(s) still welcome.

Originally Posted by Raiyn

Originally Posted by supcom

Granted. A five minute credit has been added to your life expectancy.

Originally Posted by veganheart

Latest update. I bought a good quality synthetic Trek saddle used for $5. It seems combfortable on shorter rides, but my wife and I went bike camping and with the longer ride it was definitely not combfortable. The gel seat is better on longer rides. On my trip I wished I had just stuck to the gel seat. Oh well, it was only $5.

The search continues.

As to all these debates I like what one poster said,

"Better to aim high and miss your goal than to never aim at all."

Originally Posted by froze

We still got these vegetable seat finders going on. You want the animal safe saddle but everything else that has gone into the manufacturing of your one bike has killed more animals (and maybe humans too) then one saddle would kill. You could probably get 5 or more saddles out of one skin. You ever looked into the poison factor your bike caused in it's production? Of course not because then you would be faced being a "murderer"!!! The closest you could get to "safe" bike would be a bamboo frame bike, but you still have other parts that are not eco friendly.

You all make a big stink about some animal dying for it's hide and meat, but gloss over the reality of all the crap you have in your home, car(s), on your person, and at work; all of which has killed FAR MORE animals (and humans too) then one saddle. How about that gas in your car? HEY WAKE UP, more people have died to make sure you get your stinken gas then you can imagine, but your worried about animals? YOUR ALL just a bunch of HYPOCRITES living in your ivory towers and never thinking beyond the obvious.

So here's another meat eater just showing my support with leather shoes, bike saddle, car seats that admits it and is not a hyprocrite because I know that no matter what I buy or use some animal or someone somewhere may had died for me to use it. And there ain't a damm thing anyone can do about it unless you want to live in some cave and live off the vegetables you find laying around.

I guess I'm a little testy today...but I'm not going to apologize because I get sick and tired of hearing you babies cry about animals rights but turn right around and support abortion. It seems that in todays world the animals have more rights then we humans do!!!!