BikeArkansas

The best known local coach has taught a number of riders how to actually get a little rest while standing on a hill climb. It has its basis on using your body weight to push the pedal down. The speed will be similar to or slower than a decent pedal stroke in the saddle. I am trying this technique with some success, but not perfected. Anyone good at this?

jyl

You mean simply climbing out of the saddle? Or something different?

Seated and standing pedaling use slightly different muscles. So switching between the positions gives a bit of a rest to some muscles while others are working.

You need to shift to a higher gear, like 2 cogs smaller, when standing, and use a lower cadence. For example if you are climbing seated in 53x26, before standing you would shift to 53x21 or something like that. Climbing speed will be the same.

If you do not shift when changing to the standing position, your speed will be lower. It will be easier, so you might initially feel like you are getting a rest, but if you don't have enough resistance at the pedals, standing pedaling gets tiring very fast.

A variation of this is to stay seated, but alternate between sitting on the noise of the saddle and on the tail of the saddle. Again, slightly different muscles are being used.

CliffordK

I stand up frequently when I'm just riding along. Minimal power, just letting the pedals fall.

On the other hand, I don't ride the super low gearing on the hills, so when I'm standing, I'm usually pulling up and putting a lot of effort into the climb.

Then, I guess it all depends on the hill. Less than 5%, and perhaps I can power down. Greater than 15%, and there is no resting without stopping.

canklecat

Depends on the bike and accessories. Years ago when I rode a typical cromoly frame 10 speed with drop bars, fairly quick Continental tires and toe clips, I found it easier to climb some hills by climbing out of the saddle. I wasn't a strong climber and it was easier on the knees. But on long distance rides stronger riders would pass me while they were seated. So it wasn't fast, it just felt more comfortable for me, with less thighs-on-fire.

But with my current bike - a comfy/hybrid type, with upright bars and platform pedals - standing to climb feels less secure. The high handlebars and overall geometry aren't quite right for this technique. The platform pedals without toe clips demand more attention to foot placement. Mostly it offers a bit of a respite for the knees and thighs when I'm tired.

However a couple of days ago I adjusted the saddle forward very slightly and over the last couple of rides I'm finding it more comfortable to remain seated on uphills and lean my forearms across the high handlebars and shift the balance and weight just enough to use the thighs more efficiently.

Also, I've stopped pedaling exclusively on the balls of my feet. I was locked into that technique with toe clip pedals and Detto Pietros years ago. And I continued to emulate that position when I resumed riding several weeks ago. But there's really no valid reason for it, and I'm finding it more efficient with platform pedals to shift my feet forward slightly and center my arches over the pedal for climbs or into headwinds.

That's one reason why I might add casual pedal straps, but won't get clipless pedals/shoes or return to toe clips. For casual riding on errands and pleasure rides up to 20 miles, I prefer being able to shift my feet around to get comfortable as conditions change. And, while I was comfortable with toe clips 30 years ago in traffic, platform pedals are more comfortable in traffic for me now.

bruce19

Wow! Climbing in the big ring with a 26 or 21? That's impressive. Couldn't do that around here. Well maybe Nairo Quintana.

jyl

Well, it all depends on the grade of the climb. Substitute "39" for "52" as needed.

rydabent

A trike is actually the perfect climbing machine. When you are clipped in on a trike, if you get really tired, you just stop pedaling. You can just sit there clipped in, and after a short rest, you just start to pedal again.

Bandera

Is this local coach training riders on how to get dropped or to just plooter along in the hills?
Standing w/o shifting up to a taller gear as previously noted speed will drop, and the rider will be dropped as well.

Developing the technique that makes sense for a rider's fitness and the terrain to sit/stand in the hills as required is part of adaptation to cycling.
The Old School method of riding Base Miles on a ~70GI fixed gear in moderately rolling terrain develops a fluid natural style of alternating standing/sitting and the ability produce both grunt and spin on demand.

Nothing wrong with a nice plooter about at an easy pace, didn't know that a coach was necessary to learn how to slack off.

-Bandera

Biker395 

Back in the day, we used to call that "honking."

The technique is to choose a gear that allows you to use the bike as a stair-stepper, simply transferring weight from one pedal to another. And your cadence will be much slower. If you push down on the pedal to a significant amount, you're doing it wrong.

I actually like standing. It stretches out the back, strengthens the arms and core, and just offers a nice change on a long climb. I have a 30 inch gear on all of my bikes save for one, and on that bike, I have to stand up to make it up longer grades. Heck, there are times I've gone a full mile or more standing up.

BikeArkansas

It is amazing how quickly a post can go in different directions. I do not believe I mentioned gearing in any way in my post. The coach is a former professional racer, with some wins, so getting dropped is not in his vocabulary. The method of pedaling is to give a little rest to the muscles by using mostly body weight. I do not race, but do ride with some good groups. If my legs are going bad during a climb I have had some relief with this stroke so I could recover and keep up. I am not very good at this yet, but coming along. This is just a little pedal deviation I am working with that has worked for this former racer. This is not a revolution is climbing, just a chance to recover a little.

bruce19

Of course. But, if I'm in the big ring it's a "sprinter's hill" not a climb. At least for me.

BikeArkansas

Even though I have a few bikes I also have a trike and enjoy going out on the fun little machine. I have a Scorpion FX. It is a different world on the trike than the bike.

jyl

Try this experiment. Start climbing a long hill, seated, in a gear that allows you to turn the pedals fairly easily at around 90-100 rpm. Which, for me, passes for "spinning" up a hill. Now pedal standing in the same gear, at the same cadence, for five minutes. Stop and have rest. Now repeat the experiment, but when you switch to pedaling standing, upshift a few gears (shift to smaller cogs), at a lower cadence - around 60-70 rpm - but the same road speed (mph), for five minutes. See which style you prefer.

I find pedaling standing at 90-100 rpm in a lower gear (bigger cogs) tires me much faster than pedaling standing at 60-70 rpm in a higher gear (smaller cogs).

jyl

If it is a long climb, I usually pedal the big ring up until about 6% grade, then go to the small ring. 53x26 is about the same as 39X19 anyway.

Racers ride the big ring past 10%! Well, the ones on TV do anyway.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yep, do it all the time. I shift up one ring in front and two in back (smaller cogs). Pedal about a 50 cadence, just walk up the hill. This is particularly effective on our tandem, probably because of the greater momentum. We also do it on the flat, just shift to our 53 X 11 or 12 and stand. I like to do a standing rest every 10 minutes on a long climb, by the clock. We stand for maybe 30".

DiabloScott

The idea that reducing your effort a little bit is a "rest" kind of makes me laugh. On a long climb of course there is benefit to changing up your position, stretching, standing, unweighting the saddle, using different muscles, etc... but it's not rest.

Biker395 

+1

Yup. You're just working different muscles. And when you're done workin' em ... time to sit down ... rest those and work the others again.

BTW ... nice mustache.

Carbonfiberboy 

I have seen climbers who pedal too large a gear to hold while seated. They pedal seated at ~70 cadence, but their legs can't hold it, so gradually they drift down to ~60. Then they stand, without shifting, and scoot it back up to 70, then repeat. I've tried that, but it certainly isn't the fastest method for me. Maybe folks do that when they don't have the gearing to climb in the usual way. Seems to me I've seen a video of Museeuw doing that.

When I rest me legs by going to a big gear standing, I usually accelerate just a little which pops my HR up. But it feels good to stand and when I sit again I feel still better for about 5 seconds.

John E

I like to start seated and finish standing if the climb is not too long. Otherwise, some alternating makes sense, and I usually slow down and take a slower cadence while standing than while seated, although I have used the upshift-downshift technique described above on longer climbs.

Bandera

Inefficient pedaling dynamics are best quashed early in a cycling career, "back when" a supple high cadence with the ability to put out the power needed to climb and time trial was the ideal.
Cycling, to state the obvious, is a pedaling sport: There is no substitute for efficient pedaling dynamics on the track or mountain road.
Learning what works best in positioning, style, cadence and sitting/standing alternation comes with seat time in the hills.

Before modern wide range gearing it took a different gritty technique to climb well, normal for the time and what we were used to so unremarkable.
Winter is coming, time to put the FG back in base mile service and work on form and technique......

-Bandera

70sSanO

Yep. There is really no cadence, it is just like walking up stairs. The key is finding the correct gear. It has to be high enough so that you don't peddle.

The good news is there is sort-of a rest since you are just using your body weight to push down. Bad news is that you are going so slow that you get passed by an old guy with a walker who yells, "In your face."

John

DiabloScott

OK, but you also have to lift your body weight up for the next "step". This is demonstrably more work than staying seated, it's a tradeoff for extra power and mixing up the style.


Muahahahahah

canklecat

Ditto. I find the granny gear while seated more tiring for steep uphills because I lose any momentum, and end up going so slow I also have to concentrate on balance. After trying it a few weeks I'm finding the granny gear mostly useful for gentle uphills at the end of the ride when my legs are dead, usually the final home stretch which is a long, gentle uphill grade. And it's occasionally useful for lugging 30+ lbs of groceries home on that same long, gentle uphill grade.

For short, steep climbs I'm finding it easier and less tiring to stand in a taller gear and keep up some forward momentum. But my conditioning is iffy so if I haven't reached the crest in 30 seconds I'm gonna have to walk the rest of the way up.

Subject to change as my conditioning improves.

BikeArkansas

I recently watched on television, as I am sure others did, Frome pedaling up a hill in little ring with the largest cassette. I do not know what gears he had. On the same hill in the same place, Contador was on his big ring. All this tells me is that there is not an absolute correct way to do anything. These are two of the best climbers in the bicycling world with exact opposite methods. Interesting.

jyl

Yes, there is a lot of individual variation!