walnutz

I'm looking at two of the BikesDirect steel bikes. (Not opening a can of worms, I know what I'm getting into). I'm just looking for guidance on which geometry is going to be more relaxed. I have a short torso with long legs for my height (5'8" with 32" inseam).

Here is what I am looking at:
https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...remio_xiii.htm
https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...rage_steel.htm

Any tips or advice is appreciated, thanks.

Leisesturm

Don't know. You'll have to find the bikes specs yourself from the manufacturers sites from Googling (or whatever search tool you use). The dimension that matters is ETT (effective top tube) length. For the sloping top tube bike your inseam isn't that significant. For the level top tube model it is. A whole lot of other dimensions are used to determine proper fit for a bicycle. The one I have used is the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator. Or you can go and sit on several bikes in an LBS.

H

noglider 

It's right there on the chart on those pages. One of them has a head angle that ranges from 71 to 73.5º, depending on frame size. The other stays at about 73º. So which one is more relaxed depends on the size you need.

chaadster

I'm not sure what relationship you're getting at with the 'relaxed geometry' and height inseam thing, but looking at the numbers, the Gran Premio is more relaxed, with, in the 56cm size, a slightly slacker head tube angle, and a taller head tube. The GP also has a slightly longer wheelbase, but that's because the front-center is longer, but it will contribute to the bigger feel of the bike, probably.

I wouldn't call either particularly relaxed geometries, though, and rather nice, classic road geos, with a slightly sportier edge to the Super Mirage.

walnutz

Thanks, all.

Crescent Cycle

To be fair, saddle setback, also known as seat tube angle, has some effect on how relaxed a bike can be fit, even with setback posts. Lemond advocated relaxed 72-73 degree STAs for his idea of a proper fit. Stack, closely correlated with head tube length, will also have an effect on how high you can place the handlebars if you want to run with a high rise stem and max spacers.

chaadster

Saddle setback is not the same as seat tube angle; they're related but not interchangeable in any way. Also, 'relaxed fit' is not the same as relaxed geometry.

Crescent Cycle

Fine. The number isn't the same, but when comparing different frame geometrties, if the ST intersects the BB, STA is actually more relevant than setback since the seatpost follows the seat tube angle, not the setback in mm. Setback in mm just helps people think in terms of reach and stack. In terms of actually deciding setback, STA is much more relevant because a saddle mounted the same way to the same seatpost will be in the same position relative to the BB once leg extension has been established. It doesn't matter if it is a 43cm ST with a little bit of addle setback or a 65cm ST with 50% more saddle setback. It's actually one of the more useless frame measures.

This is also the fit forum, and part of a relaxed geometry bike is allowing a relaxed fit. Just because the front end of a bike might be stable, if it has a 77 degree STA and an inherent 6 inches of saddle to bar drop for a given size, that doesn't make it a relaxed geometry. Don't try to imply that this is a ridiculous example either. Lots of small frames have very steep seat tubes, some exceeding 76, very stable front ends with 70 or less HTAs and lots of trail, and lots of people buy smaller frames to get lower stack heights. Just because the front end is "stable" doesn't mean they're relaxed geometries. Being able to get a relaxed fit is part of having a relaxed geometry.

chaadster

I can't follow what you're saying here, but it sounds like you agree that saddle setback is not the same as seat tube angle, and that you agree that a relaxed fit is not the same as relaxed geometry. I don't think it serves anything to go beyond that at this point.

Crescent Cycle

No, I'm saying being able to have a relaxed fit without resorting to extreme seatposts and stems is part of a relaxed frame geometry. You can't just declare a frame relaxed because it has a slack front end.

chaadster

I just can't follow your reasoning on this. A relaxed geo frame is a relaxed geo frame irrespective of which components you put on it or how upright your position is on it. A relaxed fit on an aggressive frame is going to yield a different ride quality than a relaxed fit on a relaxed frame.

Relaxed fit is not the same as relaxed geometry, and I don't understand why you have difficulty with that concept.