pm124

Does anyone have terrible problems with gear jump (skipping/autoshifing) on their full sized Downtube? The derailleur is adjusted (usually not the problem), and the cables are lubricated and even adjusted after folding. But as soon as I stand on the bike...boom! Down to the highest gear.

BigMacFU

I didn't experience that the little amount I rode with the spec rear derailleur, but with my XTR I haven't had any problems, so I doubt it's any kind of frame problem or hangar problem.

RonL

pm124

I get gear jump usually from 3 rd gear. Need to turn the adjustment just before the deraileur.

pm124

Thanks RonL, but this doesn't seem to be an adjustment issue. Usually a cable issue...

14R 

I had that on my first downtube. Ended up being the entire derailleur that was bent. After a quick push...100% good.

mcgurme

I had a shifting issue on my FS after a few weeks of use and some packing/unpacking in a suitcase. I replaced both the cable and housing, and it made a huge difference (I used one of those Aztec teflon-coated cables, and shifting is also smoother now). Note that replacing the cable on these shifters is not as easy as other styles of shifters. It requires that you remove the bar ends and grip (it might work to loosen the brake lever and just move that over to give room - I didn't try that), then you have to undo a small screw on the shifter that allows its dissasembly into two halves. Then the rubber cover on the shifter/grip has to be removed, and you can access the cable head to take the old one out and thread the new one. If you know what you're doing it might only take 10-20 minutes, but I had to do some guesswork to figure this out, so it took a lot longer.... Oh, and if you're doing it yourself, make sure you have a very good cable/housing cutter (e.g. the one from Park tools), else it can be a very frustrating experience.



I'd guess that it has to be either a cable issue, or a problem with the hanger/derailer. But having it suddenly shift on you sounds like the cable might be hanging up in the housing. Have you tested how well the cable slides through the housings?

Morgan

pm124

Thanks Morgan and 14R, the cage looks straight and the cable doesn't seem to snag. I'm going to take it apart tomorrow and replace the housing and cable to find the snag. Cheers!

bookishboy

This may sound too obvious to say, but just in case:

On my downtube, I sometimes have shifting issues and it stems from the fact that I don't tuck the cable back when I unfold the bike. When it gets folded, the shifting cable gets pulled through one of the cable-stays, near the frame-fold. When I unfold the bike, if I don't tuck the cable back straight, it remains bowed out, held too closely together by the two cable stays. The extra bend in the cable routing throws off the adjustment enough that it jumps on a couple of gears.

pm124

Hi all--I think I fixed it. Bookish, that is indeed a problem, and I make sure to tuck the cable each time I unfold it. With a second eye on the cage, I was told that it was indeed bent inward by a friend with a better eye. Rather than replace/straighten the dropout like you are supposed to (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html), I bent it back into place via the cage like 14R did wisely. Why? After pulling the wheel off, etc., I noticed that the hanger is in fact just an alloy bit that is more bendable than the cage. Of course, don't try this at home...you are better off taking it to your LBS if there is autoshifting going on because they have the equipment to make sure it's perfectly straight.

SCScott

Hi,

About 20 years ago I used to ride (non-folding) standard diameter, aluminum-tubing road bikes, like Alans (though Vitus' would be more familiar) and I could really notice a difference in comfort vs. an early generation Specialized Alez SE (can't remember which steel tubing was used but it was known to be a pretty stiff bike). I'm 6'2", about 175lbs and these were 60cm frames with 1" high pressure clinchers. The steel bike wasn't necessarily uncomfortable to me but I always chose the aluminum bikes for centuries, etc.

Now, after not riding for most of these years I'm interested in a folder for commuting and hopefully for recreational riding -- I'm fine with the idea of not being able to ride as fast as I used to, er, because of the bike ;-}. But I've never ridden a folder or a 20" wheeled bike. I'm considering the NS Downtube, vs. the FS, because I like the idea of a lighter bike and being able to use a rear rack. In general, when folks talk about the harshness/comfort level of a 20" unsuspended bike, how does the comfort of the ride on a stock NS Downtube compare to, say, a full-size road bike? Also, how doable is climbing hills out of the saddle on an NS Downtube in terms of flex in the handlebars/stem? How much of a factor is the suspension on an FS when climbing or pedaling hard?

Thanks very much for all of the information shared in this thread and in advance for your answers to my questions.

Scott

barneybarney

i'm following this subject with interest as i have the same problems with auto shifting except with me it's 4th gear thats the issue - it won't settle and keeps trying to change to fifth and back. weirdly, its not consistant and on occasion i don't get the problem.

however i do have a consistant problem with the chain being thrown at the front chain ring (by the peddles) when i change to 8th/9th. this now happens several times each time i take the bike out for a ride and its beginning to take the shine of the experience. Does anyone else have the same prob or know how to fix this?

also what are peoples opinions of the stock brake pads that come with the DT? do people advise replacing them? my rear brake is very poor. took bike to my LBC for service but brake/gear/chain probs not addressed.

hope someone can advise.

barney

BigMacFU

I just put the KoolStop dual compound (salmon/black) brake pads on and I really recommend them. The stock pads aren't bad, but one ride in the rain and you'll know you need more braking power. The kool stops can be had for anywhere from 9 bucks on ebay to 14 on harriscyclery. Makes sure to get the threaded kind, they work great.

As for the rider comparing to a road racer and comfort on 20" wheels, two things can make it more comfortable, a Thudbuster Seatpost and Schwalbe Big Apple Tires. The Big Apples (from people's reviews here) seem to have low rolling resistance for a "suspension" tire so not too much speed is lost. As for the Thudbuster, I'm 6' have the XL Thudbuster and I'm at the limit in order to get a road bike position. Cruiser position I've got an extra 3". If you want to really get a road bike position your best bet is to get the non-sus, get the schwalbes and then find a 550mm seatpost, or have someone custom make one that length or longer. Yan will tell you that the full-suspension will fit a taller rider because of the horizontal vs. sloping downtube. He's right, but if you don't want suspension, then finding a 550mm seatpost for the non-sus is the best bet.

pm124

Regarding using the folder as a re-entry bike, I would definitely go with the NS. This is a commuter bike, so it will be a lot more comfy than your road bike. But if you want more suspension, I 100% agree that you should simply install big fat Big Apples on the bike. Slightly less rolling resistance than the stock tires, more cushion, and better puncture protection at about the same weight. We're using Marathon Racers, which are a pound lighter than the stock Kenda Kwest or Big Apple tires.

Also, remember that this is a low cost commuter bike. It comes at a very good value. But it's not a $900 folder. To get it into shape for longer use, I've made a few modifications and will rebuild the wheels (they came in too bad of shape to true properly). Even with all of these modifications and work, this bike will come to well under $400, which is $200 less than the comperably equipped (post-modifications) Breezer Zag 8 we took back to the store.

If you are looking for a cheap replacement road bike that you can get up on, I recommend the Dahon Mu SL (which I also own) or Speed. Folders are very fast. The speed record for an upright was set on a 20" folder (the Moulton). Other people say that the high end bikes (which don't fold well enough for daily use, but are small nonetheless), like the Bike Friday, ride as fast and almost as comfortably as a comperable road bike. But if you are looking for a commuter that is reasonably sturdy (much better than a $500 Dahon!), Downtube is your bike. Yes, the bars are stiff enough, and miles ahead of mid-range Dahon bikes.

mcgurme

Hi,

I am 6'1", and around 175 lbs. I have both an FS and an NS that were purchased in the last month and a half. They're both great bikes, and you'll probably like either decision. But here is my opinion:

I find the FS much more comfortable for my size. The FS has a bit longer top-tube, and it also allows higher seat-post extension for long legs. Plus I think it rides a bit better/smoother, on equal PSI tires.

The NS is a great bike, but unless you like a really upright position, at your size, the FS is simply going to be a better fit. Also, the FS does not seem bouncy/inefficient at all. I have ridden it both on and off road, and by adjusting both front and rear shock tension, it is easy to get a stiff ride for the road and a softer ride for offroad (not as soft as my full-suspension Mtn bike, but that was 6x more expensive).

The disadvantages of the FS are that it's more expensive than the NS, it is heavier, and it doesn't come with rack or fender. For the rack, I just bought a quick release beam rack (on sale at performance bike for $24 currently), and for fenders I had ones lying around that clip on and off quickly.

So unless you're really worried about the weight or cost, my experience owning both leads me to recommend the FS. (For someone 5' 9" or less, I'd probably say the NS is fine). Either way, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Morgan

SCScott

Thanks for sharing your experience, advice and upgrade tips BigMacFU, pm124 and Morgan. There's a dealer in my area who's supposed to carry some Dahons so I may try to test ride one so I can get a sense of how 20" wheels ride. I like the idea of the NS Downtube better than the FS but you can't ride an idea (unless it fits).

Scott

mcgurme

Not to overload you with information, but I'll just mention a few more things . . .

I, too, liked the idea of the NS better, so I bought that one first. Then, I saw a lot of people here saying how great the FS was, especially for taller folks, and being impressed with the NS, I purchased an FS for a great price on Ebay. I ended up getting both bikes for the price that I was originally going to spend on a mid-range Dahon.

After riding both, the FS was the clear choice for me - more comfortable and stable for my size. So as you said, "you can't ride an idea" and my idea that the NS was better flew out the window. (My partner, who's 5'9", loves the NS...)

The 20" wheels will feel strange at first, but they are oddly addictive. I presently own 3 other bikes, a high end mountain bike, good road/touring bike (did a metric century on it this weekend), and a commuting bike (in it's former life it was a Fat Chance Yo Eddy, an awesome mountain bike). But I am always most excited to get back on the folder...

Morgan

14R 

Very addictive. I have a high end urban bike but I only use it to ride in traffic where I feel safer using 700c wheels due to road conditions around here (and the bike does better with panniers, HID lights and batteries, etc). I look fwd for the weekends when I can ride my folder.

Rafael

Leisesturm

Just put in my order for the full suspension downtube. Had called Downtube last week and got callback from Yan. More a formality than anything else as this thread has reviewed, thrashed and praised all the Downtube models about as much as any product can be analyzed prior 'and' post purchase. I've been waffling on the purchase for quite awhile for two reasons 1. Money, yes its a great value, but one must pay the rent. 2. I have a 2005 Giant Halfway that was hardly an insignificant purchase, gives very good service and would most likely not re-sell for an amount comparable to its condition and age. So you know there has to be a good reason for wanting to add another folder to the stable, and there is: suspension. In NYC suspension has become the dealbreaker. After six years away I have returned to find major avenues like Broadway below Chambers Street and most avenues in Brooklyn north of Prospect Park nearly unrideable because of the road surface. Comfort is not the only issue. I am quite able to get out of the saddle to alleviate the pounding on me but doing so makes for an inevitable hit in performance. It simply isn't possible to get much speed when you are out of the saddle more than on it and sooner or later frame and drivetrain components are going to fail just as they do on cars and other vehicles that rack up high mileage in the NYC metro area. I look forward to being able to keep pedalling through most (probably not all) of the road irregularities that are a fact of life here. I just don't think a larger section tire is enough of a solution for this area and the last time I looked (~1y) the Thudbuster model I would want retailed for well over the price of an entire 9sp Downtube!? I think there will be positives to having two folders around, the DT will become the daily driver and the 1/2way the weekend warrior. I can now do my own maintenance and service at my leisure as it won't result in downtime if I can't do a needed procedure in a timely fashion.

H

mcgurme

Hi all,
So the FS I have been raving about here on the forum has an issue. About a week into ownership, when it had barely been ridden, I was doing some work on the bike and noticed a weld broken on the u-shaped frame protector bracket at the bottom of the bike. I was bummed out, but was on my way out for a week long trip, so I postponed dealing with it.

When I got back I contacted Yan and he was convinced that this happened in shipping by UPS. I made a closer inspection of the box and it revealed that it had undergone some abuse (a few holes in it), but it is not mangled. Yan was unable to file a claim due to using a separate shipping company, so I had to file a cliam myself.

Now UPS says they want to come "pick up the package" (bike and all) for an "inspection", whereupon I have read on other internet sites they will send it back to the shipper until the claim is resolved (which can apparently take a long time). But I don't know if that's heresay or what actually happens.

I want no part of sending the bike back for an unspecified period of time and to unknown destination just for UPS to reject my claims and go through a lengthy appeals process, meanwhile I am out a bike. Worse, I have already spent a bunch of time adding stuff to the bike, which would all have to be taken off and replaced with the factory stuff.

Has anyone had experience with filing the UPS claims process on a broken/abused DT? Did they take your bike? How did the claim go?

Any experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks
Morgan

ps - the moral of the story for me is to inspect every single inch before doing *anything* with it - the weld break was in about the least obvious place possible - but it had to have been a very solid whack for this to happen

bikinbob

I received questions about a my rack/bag/pannier setup mentioned in a revious post. Thought I'd post a link to the pictures and share my ramblings.


##############
############# The questions:

What model of MTX rack did you purchase?
E-Type - Straight out
A-Type - Jog upwards
V-Type - Jog downwards

How did the rack fit with the panniers over the FS rear suspension frame?

Does the rack clamp hold the assembly secure on the seatpost during riding?

I do not want to order a rack without first hearing how it would fit.
By any chance do you have any pictures of your bicycle with the rack installed.

##############
############## The Answers:


I have the V -- "jog down" type.

The suspension is no factor in the fit as far as I'm concerned. The rack and panner frame are not influenced by the suspension position. Maybe without the pannier frame you could get the rack down close to the suspension. But it wouldn't be necessary to mount it that low, and it would probably look odd.

I also have the optional pannier frames, which always remain mounted on the rack. I normally lower the rack down till the lower part of the pannier frame is about 1 inch above the rear light. If I'm riding in the dark I move the whole assembly up another inch or so, but that still leaves it penty low enough to keep the top of their largest trunk bag well below seat level.

################

Here's a whole fleet of pics (17 total). This should give you a pretty good grasp of the topeak and downtube together.

https://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rpgrub...5sCHFBw4RLFZrv

###############

If I've got the panneirs substantially loaded (a 12 pack of sodas, another 10+ lbs of groceries, plus my normal 'ton' of riding gear) and hit a pretty radical bump, I can feel the whole assembly swing/sway around a little. A couple of times I've actually knocked the whole thing out of alignment enough for the pannier frame to rub the tire. It's immediately audible, and a real quick adjustment resolves the problem. For me, it is very well worth the convnience of the clip-off bag, and quick release rack. It fits my usage mode perfectly. If I'm going into the grocery or a store I normally slide the bag off and it goes with me.

When I commute with my laptop, I normally put it on the left side. Daytimer, data folders, and clothes on the other. Lunch usually rides in the top. I put a (slightly modified) padded liner from a laptop bag into the pannier before I slide the laptop in. I also stash shoes and substantial clothing at the office, so carrying clothes is often optional.

For about a year and a half I used another brand of quick release rack, unmatched bag, pannier frame, and a zillion bungies. It just didn't get it, not even close.

I am totally jazzed with the Topeak rig. 10 months worth of proof has me sold.

If I start doing any tours of more than two days at at time I MIGHT CONSIDER a mounted rack solution. On my last two day (credit card) trip, the Topeak was all I needed -- with room to spare.

I got my rig from different sources. I think I saved about at least $60 on the three pieces. I think I got the rack on ebay, the bag from Universal Cycle, and pannier frame from Alfred E Bike.

On ebay a lot of times you'll see combined rack / bag combos going for reasonable prices (well below list). Just need to make sure you get the MODELS you want if you go after a package deal.

14R 

The link didn't work for me (even though I am a registered member of yahoo photos). What is your username there?

bookishboy

Morgan,

Haven't had any experience with shipping damage. The mini that I ordered for my girlfriend arrived with a broken seatpost (wasn't welded well enough.... the seat spun around on the top of the seatpost). I emailed Downtube with pics of the damage, and Yan shipped out a new one. Had to wait a couple of weeks, because he was at Interbike, and the first shipment went to an incorrect address (paypal snafu?).

Sorry to hear that you may be in for an unpleasant experience trying to prove that the damage was from UPS.

Freshaire

I may have missed your response, but did not miss the opportunity to try one out. Ended up trading emails with Yan and then ordering a Downtube mini. I couldn't be happier with it's performance for me! Yahoo, a great decision!

Leisesturm

If I didn't have that post above to confirm when I placed the order I would question my sanity. Got to see my new DT last night. It actually had arrived the day before!!! I had had it shipped to my weekend job as I knew they would have someone (friendlier) to handle the pick-up from UPS but they didn't call me and let me know I had a package. All is forgiven. So that was what, two days?! There is no shipping damage that I can see, though all the staples holding the box lid shut had been ripped out and I was able to pull off the plastic strap holding the whole works shut without cutting it. There were all sorts of ominous rattles and rolls and clunkings going on inside and I really feared the worst. I am fairly certain that the derailleur is not damaged but I was not in a position to test ride the bike. The tires are flat and I had only gone by the job to pick up my check so I was not equipped with any allen wrenches or pump which I will need to get the bike properly set up. I think Yan and company make a good effort to protect the bits that might get hit during transport but I have to think that simply putting the bike in a plastic bag and filling the void spaces with either spray in insulation or styrofoam peanuts would be less labor intensive than zip tying crush pads to hot spots. Good thing there was a box-cutter handy to sever all those zip ties. So kudo's Yan, you have exceeded expectations so far.

H

pm124

I'm working on lightening up the NS. The Marathon Racers and MKS pedals took off a pound and a half. The saddle weights 1.1 Kg, so swapping that for a $20 200gm saddle from Pricepoint took two pounds off. However, the lighter saddle and the lack of suspension was too much for me. Does anyone recommend a super comfy but relatively light saddle? I know that they are personal, but you have to start somewhere!