car-free/car-light
07-13-06, 10:20 AM
#1
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car-free/car-light
where's the line?
07-13-06, 10:43 AM
#2
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I don't think you'll find a monolithic definition, as evidenced by the "You're not sustainable" thread, but I'll go on a limb here and say that most here seem to say or define it thus:
1. If you don't own/use a personal-use motorized vehicle, you're "car-free." This doesn't stop you from using a taxi or bus or train or whatever from time to time, or from getting goods and services that have made use of motorized vehicles/trains/boats/planes, etcetera.
2. If you look to limit your personal motorized vehicle use to almost strictly utilitarian needs (which I suppose doesn't include driving down to the corner store for a bag of chips and a 6-pack to watch the game), then you're "car-lite." This obviously has many gradations, though, since it isn't as cut-and-dry as not owning a car at all.
3. If you live off the land entirely, relying on no modern means of shipping and using no electricity, etcetera, then you're not anyone in this forum, because we all use computers to post here (although solar panels can charge laptop batteries). I'm not even sure what to call these people.
1. If you don't own/use a personal-use motorized vehicle, you're "car-free." This doesn't stop you from using a taxi or bus or train or whatever from time to time, or from getting goods and services that have made use of motorized vehicles/trains/boats/planes, etcetera.
2. If you look to limit your personal motorized vehicle use to almost strictly utilitarian needs (which I suppose doesn't include driving down to the corner store for a bag of chips and a 6-pack to watch the game), then you're "car-lite." This obviously has many gradations, though, since it isn't as cut-and-dry as not owning a car at all.
3. If you live off the land entirely, relying on no modern means of shipping and using no electricity, etcetera, then you're not anyone in this forum, because we all use computers to post here (although solar panels can charge laptop batteries). I'm not even sure what to call these people.
07-13-06, 10:56 AM
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I think it's best to let the concepts carfree and carlite be a bit fuzzy. Precise definitions are mostly used by people with trollish inclinations who are trying to instigate heated arguments on this forum.
07-13-06, 12:03 PM
#4
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Let's discuss fuzzy. I read the LCF forum but don't post. I agree with most of the prinicpals and ideals of this group, and I've been consistently lowering our car use with the ideas found here.
My situation:
Wife and I used to both drive, putting about 16,000 miles on each car per year driving fuel-efficient Hondas. Two children later, she stays home and uses our family car for large large staple shopping trips with the kids beyond a mile or two. I cyclocommute 5 days/week 22 miles R/T, she takes the kids to the pool, for ice cream, library, etc. via bike in good weather. I sold my car, and keep a VW camper van as a recreational vehicle, which I can use as a second car in a pinch. We're now down to a total of about 10,000 miles/year for all cars, and more of it highway driving. I have a fast commuter bike, a bad weather/backup commuter bike, and a basket-laden "granny" bike for local errands. My wife has a mountain bike complete with "soccer mom" conversion (Burley, trail-a-bike adapter, etc).
I like to think I'm car light, and that as a family, we're lighter than most. On the fuzziness scale of 'car-free' to 'I drive to the mailbox', I assume I'm more toward the car-free side than most midwesterners with children.
Do I belong here?
My situation:
Wife and I used to both drive, putting about 16,000 miles on each car per year driving fuel-efficient Hondas. Two children later, she stays home and uses our family car for large large staple shopping trips with the kids beyond a mile or two. I cyclocommute 5 days/week 22 miles R/T, she takes the kids to the pool, for ice cream, library, etc. via bike in good weather. I sold my car, and keep a VW camper van as a recreational vehicle, which I can use as a second car in a pinch. We're now down to a total of about 10,000 miles/year for all cars, and more of it highway driving. I have a fast commuter bike, a bad weather/backup commuter bike, and a basket-laden "granny" bike for local errands. My wife has a mountain bike complete with "soccer mom" conversion (Burley, trail-a-bike adapter, etc).
I like to think I'm car light, and that as a family, we're lighter than most. On the fuzziness scale of 'car-free' to 'I drive to the mailbox', I assume I'm more toward the car-free side than most midwesterners with children.
Do I belong here?
07-13-06, 12:22 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by legot73
.... putting about 16,000 miles on each car .....
We're now down to a total of about 10,000 miles/year for all cars, and more of it highway driving.
Do I belong here?
We're now down to a total of about 10,000 miles/year for all cars, and more of it highway driving.
Do I belong here?
__________________
"There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson
"There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson
07-13-06, 02:05 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by legot73
Let's discuss fuzzy. I read the LCF forum but don't post. I agree with most of the prinicpals and ideals of this group, and I've been consistently lowering our car use with the ideas found here.
My situation:
Wife and I used to both drive, putting about 16,000 miles on each car per year driving fuel-efficient Hondas. Two children later, she stays home and uses our family car for large large staple shopping trips with the kids beyond a mile or two. I cyclocommute 5 days/week 22 miles R/T, she takes the kids to the pool, for ice cream, library, etc. via bike in good weather. I sold my car, and keep a VW camper van as a <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="https://www.qklinkserver.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=92&k=recreational%20vehicle&st=1" onmouseover="window.status='Search for: recreational vehicle'; self.ql_skeyphrase='recreational%20vehicle'; if(window.event) self.ql_sevent=window.event.srcElement; self.ql_timeout = setTimeout('ql_doMouseOver(1)', 1000); self.ql_isOverLink=true; return true;" onclick="if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; ql_closeiframe(); self.ql_skeyphrase='recreational%20vehicle'; window.status='Search for: recreational vehicle';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; setTimeout('ql_closeiframe()', 1500); ">recreational vehicle</a>, which I can use as a second car in a pinch. We're now down to a total of about 10,000 miles/year for all cars, and more of it highway driving. I have a fast commuter bike, a bad weather/backup commuter bike, and a basket-laden "granny" bike for local errands. My wife has a <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="https://www.qklinkserver.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=92&k=mountain%20bike&st=1" onmouseover="window.status='Search for: mountain bike'; self.ql_skeyphrase='mountain%20bike'; if(window.event) self.ql_sevent=window.event.srcElement; self.ql_timeout = setTimeout('ql_doMouseOver(1)', 1000); self.ql_isOverLink=true; return true;" onclick="if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; ql_closeiframe(); self.ql_skeyphrase='mountain%20bike'; window.status='Search for: mountain bike';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; setTimeout('ql_closeiframe()', 1500); ">mountain bike</a> complete with "soccer mom" conversion (Burley, trail-a-bike adapter, etc).
I like to think I'm car light, and that as a family, we're lighter than most. On the fuzziness scale of 'car-free' to 'I drive to the mailbox', I assume I'm more toward the car-free side than most midwesterners with children.
Do I belong here?
My situation:
Wife and I used to both drive, putting about 16,000 miles on each car per year driving fuel-efficient Hondas. Two children later, she stays home and uses our family car for large large staple shopping trips with the kids beyond a mile or two. I cyclocommute 5 days/week 22 miles R/T, she takes the kids to the pool, for ice cream, library, etc. via bike in good weather. I sold my car, and keep a VW camper van as a <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="https://www.qklinkserver.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=92&k=recreational%20vehicle&st=1" onmouseover="window.status='Search for: recreational vehicle'; self.ql_skeyphrase='recreational%20vehicle'; if(window.event) self.ql_sevent=window.event.srcElement; self.ql_timeout = setTimeout('ql_doMouseOver(1)', 1000); self.ql_isOverLink=true; return true;" onclick="if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; ql_closeiframe(); self.ql_skeyphrase='recreational%20vehicle'; window.status='Search for: recreational vehicle';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; setTimeout('ql_closeiframe()', 1500); ">recreational vehicle</a>, which I can use as a second car in a pinch. We're now down to a total of about 10,000 miles/year for all cars, and more of it highway driving. I have a fast commuter bike, a bad weather/backup commuter bike, and a basket-laden "granny" bike for local errands. My wife has a <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="https://www.qklinkserver.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=92&k=mountain%20bike&st=1" onmouseover="window.status='Search for: mountain bike'; self.ql_skeyphrase='mountain%20bike'; if(window.event) self.ql_sevent=window.event.srcElement; self.ql_timeout = setTimeout('ql_doMouseOver(1)', 1000); self.ql_isOverLink=true; return true;" onclick="if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; ql_closeiframe(); self.ql_skeyphrase='mountain%20bike'; window.status='Search for: mountain bike';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; setTimeout('ql_closeiframe()', 1500); ">mountain bike</a> complete with "soccer mom" conversion (Burley, trail-a-bike adapter, etc).
I like to think I'm car light, and that as a family, we're lighter than most. On the fuzziness scale of 'car-free' to 'I drive to the mailbox', I assume I'm more toward the car-free side than most midwesterners with children.
Do I belong here?
07-13-06, 02:24 PM
#7
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Alekhine
I don't think you'll find a monolithic definition, as evidenced by the "You're not sustainable" thread, but I'll go on a limb here and say that most here seem to say or define it thus:
1. If you don't own/use a personal-use motorized vehicle, you're "car-free." This doesn't stop you from using a taxi or bus or train or whatever from time to time, or from getting goods and services that have made use of motorized vehicles/trains/boats/planes, etcetera.
2. If you look to limit your personal motorized vehicle use to almost strictly utilitarian needs (which I suppose doesn't include driving down to the corner store for a bag of chips and a 6-pack to watch the game), then you're "car-lite." This obviously has many gradations, though, since it isn't as cut-and-dry as not owning a car at all.
3. If you live off the land entirely, relying on no modern means of shipping and using no electricity, etcetera, then you're not anyone in this forum, because we all use computers to post here (although solar panels can charge laptop batteries). I'm not even sure what to call these people.
1. If you don't own/use a personal-use motorized vehicle, you're "car-free." This doesn't stop you from using a taxi or bus or train or whatever from time to time, or from getting goods and services that have made use of motorized vehicles/trains/boats/planes, etcetera.
2. If you look to limit your personal motorized vehicle use to almost strictly utilitarian needs (which I suppose doesn't include driving down to the corner store for a bag of chips and a 6-pack to watch the game), then you're "car-lite." This obviously has many gradations, though, since it isn't as cut-and-dry as not owning a car at all.
3. If you live off the land entirely, relying on no modern means of shipping and using no electricity, etcetera, then you're not anyone in this forum, because we all use computers to post here (although solar panels can charge laptop batteries). I'm not even sure what to call these people.
Paul
07-13-06, 02:52 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by PaulH
What about people who use their bike for commuting and shopping and save the car for weekend recreation? Are they "car light?" I never got into utility driving.
Paul
Paul
If you seek to limit your car use instead of using it for nearly everything you do, even that puts you into the territory of car-lite, as far as I'm concerned (most people probably don't even think about it, in other words). There are shades with such a - as platy put it - "fuzzy" term.
07-13-06, 04:52 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by Alekhine
3. If you live off the land entirely, relying on no modern means of shipping and using no electricity, etcetera, then you're not anyone in this forum, because we all use computers to post here (although solar panels can charge laptop batteries). I'm not even sure what to call these people.
07-13-06, 06:14 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by tsl
Amish.
Aaron
07-13-06, 06:26 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by wahoonc
Funny thing about those Amish (at least the ones in Holmes County Ohio) they have ALUMINUM siding on their houses. And they will ride in a vehicle in a heartbeat, just won't own or drive one. I spent quite a bit of time in that area about 7 years ago, it was an interesting lesson in sematics
Aaron
Aaron
07-13-06, 07:10 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by PaulH
What about people who use their bike for commuting and shopping and save the car for weekend recreation? Are they "car light?" I never got into utility driving.
Paul
Paul
07-13-06, 07:24 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by bragi
At that point, why not just get rid of the car entirely? (It's a question, not a criticism.)
07-14-06, 01:49 AM
#14
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Originally Posted by brunop
where's the line?
07-14-06, 09:41 AM
#15
Senior Member
Originally Posted by bragi
At that point, why not just get rid of the car entirely? (It's a question, not a criticism.)
There was a whole period in my life during which I was doing sports car stuff -- autocross, rallies, weekend driving down curvey country roads, but doing almost all my utility transportation by bike. My point is that car enthusiasts obviously will not want to go "car free", but may find that going "car light" enhances their enjoyment of motoring, since utility is not what draws them to cars. Some of them find driving to work as uninviting a prospect as bike commuting is for many serious roadies -- similar mindset.
The issue, as I see it, is car dependance.
Paul
07-14-06, 10:28 AM
#16
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I consider myself striving towards car independance, but I've got a long way to go before I would feel comfortable calling myself car-lite. I bike to work about 2-3 days per week, and my wife and I can do much of our shopping on foot or by bike. But I have friends that live about 15 miles away that I drive to visit on a weekly basis, and my wife and I drive about 60 miles to San Francisco once or twice a month to go dancing.
Although I would love to reduce my automobile usage even further, my wife does not share my aspirations towards becoming car-free. She does understand my strongly held convictions, and does humor me from time to time, but most of the time, when we go anywhere together, we go by car.
Although I would love to reduce my automobile usage even further, my wife does not share my aspirations towards becoming car-free. She does understand my strongly held convictions, and does humor me from time to time, but most of the time, when we go anywhere together, we go by car.
07-14-06, 10:35 AM
#17
hell's angels h/q e3st ny
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Originally Posted by Icycle
I consider myself striving towards car independance, but I've got a long way to go before I would feel comfortable calling myself car-lite. I bike to work about 2-3 days per week, and my wife and I can do much of our shopping on foot or by bike. But I have friends that live about 15 miles away that I drive to visit on a weekly basis, and my wife and I drive about 60 miles to San Francisco once or twice a month to go dancing.
Although I would love to reduce my automobile usage even further, my wife does not share my aspirations towards becoming car-free. She does understand my strongly held convictions, and does humor me from time to time, but most of the time, when we go anywhere together, we go by car.
Although I would love to reduce my automobile usage even further, my wife does not share my aspirations towards becoming car-free. She does understand my strongly held convictions, and does humor me from time to time, but most of the time, when we go anywhere together, we go by car.
07-14-06, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by brunop
you may need to get a new wife, dude!
But when it's raining out, she will choose to drive. If she needs more groceries than she can carry, or she needs something that isn't sold at the corner grocery store, she'll drive. And if she needs to go anywhere more than about two miles away, she'll drive.
So, although she's not car-lite, and she doesn't have any goal to become car-lite, I think I've already had a good influence on her.
Now if only I could convince her of the benefits of fenders, racks, and raingear...
07-14-06, 01:02 PM
#19
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Actually, I'd consider her more car-light than not... Something like 50% of car trips in this country are less than two miles. If EVERYONE used a bike for trips like that, we'd use a ton less petroleum and clean up the air a lot.
And once you hit the two mile mark, there's nothing really keeping you from going farther on the bike, other than just a personal feeling of "it's too far" (I've found that that set 'too far' distance keeps growing, as you become more used to reaching for the bike lock rather than the car keys)
I rode 8 miles from work to a new bike shop yesterday evening, and then rode 8 miles from there to my house. (Nearly doubling my normal 8.5 mile commute) I just wanted to try them and see how they were!
My wife used to consider 1/4 mile 'too far' to walk someplace... weekend before last we walked 3 miles, and the only issue was that she got a sunburn because she didn't wear sunblock (we misjudged the distance from the bus stop to where we were going!)
And once you hit the two mile mark, there's nothing really keeping you from going farther on the bike, other than just a personal feeling of "it's too far" (I've found that that set 'too far' distance keeps growing, as you become more used to reaching for the bike lock rather than the car keys)
I rode 8 miles from work to a new bike shop yesterday evening, and then rode 8 miles from there to my house. (Nearly doubling my normal 8.5 mile commute) I just wanted to try them and see how they were!
My wife used to consider 1/4 mile 'too far' to walk someplace... weekend before last we walked 3 miles, and the only issue was that she got a sunburn because she didn't wear sunblock (we misjudged the distance from the bus stop to where we were going!)
__________________
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07-14-06, 03:24 PM
#21
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An Amish boy at the farmer's market was admiring my now (late) Giant Cypress bike. He asked how much it cost. I told him and then asked if Amish people could ride them. They cannot. But he and his father had come to market in a red pickup truck.
