Savagewolf

I am currently planning the build for my future rando bike, as there is a good chance a builder I have been waiting for to open will have an opening. If I don't get the spot, I'll still be planning the same build for when it does open.

The plan : A vintage looking bike but built today. I want it to be as functional, but not so much that it will take away from a very clean look. I want the impossible of bells and whistles without seeing all of the bells and whistles.

Known details :

Frame: Club racer, English 3-speed appearance.

Shifting: Bar end or down tube, no brifters. Bar-end would be more functional, but I'm not a fan of the cabling up there. Down tube gives me a more desirable appearance but will require a bit more reaching to shift. Advantage going to bar-end right now.

Brake levers: Aero. No debate here for me. Black hoods, drilled levers, unsure of brand.

Brakes: Unsure of style or brand.

Drivetrain: Triple or compact, polished silver, 175 crank arms. Unsure for ring sizes.

Fenders: Full, front and back. Undecided on polished steel or painted to frame colors.

Wheels and tires: Unsure. Reliability and durability are priorities over speed and must be able to handle me with no issues (6'4, 230lb guy). Leaning towards wider than most road bikes.

Lighting : Something that mounts on the fender or headtube and has a polished steel appearance. Long-running battery powered or dynamo if it can be clean (too many wires)
Rear light with a polished steel appearance that fits on fender or near brakes

Saddle : Brooks B-17 Imperial, honey

Saddlebag : Brooks or other leather, honey

Handlebar tape : Leather, honey

Pump : Probably want a full frame pump, polished silver or painted to frame color, just hate the look of the pump on the bike.

To be continued.....

unterhausen

I didn't really see a question there, but is this bike being built for the purposes of randonneuring?

My only comment is that STI integrated shifters are one of the best things that ever happened to my randonneuring. I used DT shifters for the first couple of years, and on a 600k it got to the point where I didn't really want to reach down and shift because it physically hurt. Of course, if you get DT shifter bosses, you can put stops on them, so you aren't really limiting yourself.

Commodus

One rando told me that he only uses DT shifters because on a 600 one time his hands cramped up. The DT shifters required him to move his whole body and kept him loose.

Not arguing, folks are just different. I use DTs myself, but that's just because I'm cheap.

Savagewolf

My apologies, I didn't word things clearly enough. My intention of the thread is that if you were to build yourself a rando bike, with the intention of it having a vintage retro look as a priority, what would you equip the bike with?

My theory is that is general, bikes improved in functionality and design as the years went by. To get the bike that I want, I'm going to have to sacrifice a little here and a little there, and there are some great randonneurs on this forum that can provide valuable insight. And yes, I fully understand that I am restricting myself greatly by going this route.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I definitely see where you are coming from, Unterhausen, and that is one of my biggest fears. 100k's shouldn't be an issue, I can do a 100k on a mountain bike without too much trouble over the regular road bike set up. Longer distances will definitely not be as convenient with my shifting selection.

Pain

I think Velo Orange will be getting some business soon. They make retro looking but modern function polished everything and their prices are reasonable.
For the pump you want the polished Lezyne Road Drive.
I did a modern retro bike with a Soma Stanyon frame.

Steamer

I think you'll find the bunch here is much better at talking about stuff that works, works for them, how it works, etc. Works. Not looks.

What are you going to actually do with the bike?

If you are wanting to get into rando, just start doing it with the bike you already have (with a perhaps a few select modifications or accessories) and then once you have some experience, then you'll know what a dedicated rando bike for you might be.

If you are mostly interested in the retro rando constructeur look (and there is nothing wrong with that; I am not making a value judgement here), then there are some better places on the internet to visit than this place. Velocipede Salon comes to mind.

fettsvenska 

I'm not the most experienced random around but my opinion on the matter is that if you are more concerned about appearance, you might have to sacrifice some functionality, but that might not be a big deal to you. For example, I assembled a 1976 Motobecane Grand Jubile with modern Velo Orange components except for the derailleurs and shifters, where I used vintage Suntour Cyclone. I'm sure that the Cyclone components are not quite as nice as the more modern stuff but they are adequate for my purposes.

Barrettscv 

I ride vintage bikes and I'll ride modern bikes. Each have their charm. I would try both before building a retro-custom.

ThermionicScott 

I'm having a little trouble picturing a "club racer" or "English 3-speed" with bar-ends or triples on it, but that's just me.

When putting in your order with the framebuilder, you'll want to be careful about how you describe it. The slacker angles of an English 3-speed (something like 71 degrees) will produce a lot of trail if the fork doesn't also have a lot of offset. Some people are more sensitive to trail than others, but I really appreciated the light steering of my Bianchi toward the end of the rides this season.

How much rando riding have you done so far?

Savagewolf

Official rando riding is very little. Between job(s) and family, I tend to always be busy when any official rides are being held. I do, however, do a lot of riding in a similar style just without the checkpoints and cards: Ride from Point A (home start) to point B to point C to point D to point E and back to point A (home). I don't have brevet cards to sign at each point, just a time limit to get home and much like any ride you do alone it is without any help. I switch the bikes around depending on my mood, the weather, or what bike best fits my need. Each has their postitives and negatives.

My carbon happy Madone with dura-ace 20 spd compact : +Fastest and lightest, +Most reliable, +2nd favorite bike to ride. -One I worry the most about getting damaged and won't take my eye off of, least cargo(2 water bottles, garmin computer, saddle bag with lever, tube, patch, CO2 and adapter), basically my fair weather bike

Aluminum Trek 1000 with 24spd triple Sora/Tiagra : +2nd fastest, +2nd most comfortable, +Most cargo (Multiple tools, frame pump, handebar bag and rack, spare tube, patch kit, 2 water bottles, spare tire). -Least reliable (My weight + extra gear not friendly on rear wheel spokes), -bike I enjoy riding the 2nd least

Steel Raleigh Team USA with double 10spd downtube shifters: +Favorite bike to ride, +Most comfortable to ride, +2nd most cargo with room to add. -3rd slowest, -One water bottle, -bike I want to change the least in appearance (negative when I want a frame pump instead of mini, more water carrying, computer, etc but don't want the overcrowded look)

Steel Univega Carisma hybrid with triple 21sp? with grip shifting: +Bike I care the least about (stolen, dinged, scratched....don't care), +rock solid bike that could carry a lot if I wanted to set it up that way. -Slowest, -2nd least cargo right now as set up, -most uncomfortable, -like it the least and the one bike I'd hate the most to do over 50 miles on.

The Madone is my fastest bike and the one I'd most likely use on 100k's. It also has (and will stay that way) the least amount of room to carry extra gear. Even though it has proven reliable, it is also a bike that I never take out in bad weather and I'm afraid to take my eye off of it for a second. It just looks expensive and a tempting target to steal.

The 1000 is my kitchen sink bike. It gets the most miles and has every gadget out there on it, with room to carry more. I also care little for the looks and dings/scratches/overloaded look are just fine with me. However, I've gone through three rear wheels on it and even though it's done some pretty long rides with no mishaps, I don't trust it to not break a few spokes when I least need it. It's comfy, but I don't like riding the bike as much as the Raleigh or Madone.

The Raleigh is almost my perfect bike. It rides like a dream, uses steel wheels and wider tires that seem tough enough to tackle any surface, and has my favorite look of the 4. The disadvantages are it has just one water bottle boss and I don't like the idea of using a clamped on one. I also don't like the look of adding all of the gear I would want for longer rides, and because of that I am restricting myself to a large saddlebag, fenders, and maybe a painted frame pump. I don't even like the look of a computer on this one and am trying to find a place to hide one. It also has a bad habit of wanting to change gears on me no matter what I try to do.

The Univega is just bleh. The ride feels harsh, it's very heavy and slow, and isn't even a consideration for any long rides. I wouldn't even take it on a 100k. Out of the contest entirely.

The new bike : I want something more like








Instead of something like this (not that there is anything wrong with it..it's all a looks thing):

jcmkk3

I would say first you need to decide if you want indexed shifting or friction shifting. If it is indexed, and you want to use modern componentry, Shimano (or Shimano compatible Microshift) will be your only options. Campagnolo has the most vintage looking groupsets with their Athena and Veloce coming in silver. You would have to use a ShiftMate adapter to use indexed Shimano shifters with it. The Ultegra and lower groupsets from Shimano come in a silver-ish finish. The crankset would probably stand out the most in a vintage type build. You could easily just use a non-set crankset, however. SRAM doesn't really offer anything that I would consider vintage looking except maybe their urban VIA groupset (even that is a stretch).

For other more modern built componentry with a classic look, check out Ritchey's "Classic" line. Kirk Pacenti's PL23 rims would be my choice in rims. They have a classic look with all of the modern tech (23mm wide and tubeless ready). Mavic, Velocity, and H Plus Son also have some rim options. Other companies to check out would be Compass Bicycles. They make/distribute classic componentry with some modern updates. Velo Orange is fully entrenched in the vintage aesthetic with more budget offerings. A lot of the small American companies make some vintage looking pieces too: Paul Components, Thomson, Phil Wood, White Industries and Chris King to name a few.

It is not so hard these days to build a modern-classic style bike.

Savagewolf

Thank you for the tips, jcmkk3. Awesome advice. I lean more towards indexed shifting because it would a lot less fumbling to get the exact shift that I need that friction sometimes causes me on my Raleigh. I'm going to check out the links you added in there now.

StephenH

My Sojourn came with bar-end shifters. Work fine. Minor shortcoming: If you sweat enough, that sweat winds up on the shifters.
The rear is indexed, front is not (with a triple). All in all, the front is easier to shift than the indexed triple on my tandem.
I've got a skewer-mounted dynamo light, works great, not much wiring strung around.
Are you carrying some sort of big bag? If so, consider a Road Morph, if it'll fit in the bag, that'll clean up the looks of the bike.
Taillights- I'd forget the looks and light the thing up like a Christmas tree, no point having them say at the funeral, "We're sorry he's dead, but didn't his bike look pretty before the wreck!"

Chris Pringle

Frame: Club racer, English 3-speed appearance.
COMMENT: Love that look! If you're going custom, I think the vintage club racer look will stand the test of time.

Shifting: Bar end or down tube, no brifters. Bar-end would be more functional, but I'm not a fan of the cabling up there. Down tube gives me a more desirable appearance but will require a bit more reaching to shift. Advantage going to bar-end right now.
COMMENT: Bar-end shifters will go well with the look you want, but at the end function/ease will do it for me. Campagnolo brifters is the way to go here.

Brake levers: Aero. No debate here for me. Black hoods, drilled levers, unsure of brand.
COMMENT: Ditto. Campagnolo brifters.

Brakes: Unsure of style or brand.
COMMENT: PAUL Components canti brakes with high-polish finish seem really nice.

Drivetrain: Triple or compact, polished silver, 175 crank arms. Unsure for ring sizes.
COMMENT: Campy 50-39-30t crankset w/ 12-30 cassette. This would be nice on hilly terrain. You can also try a Shimergo combo, but some purists might think this is a no-no for a high-end build.

Fenders: Full, front and back. Undecided on polished steel or painted to frame colors.
COMMENT: Honjos will enhance the rest of polished stuff on your frame, plus not having to worry about the paint peeling off.

Wheels and tires: Unsure. Reliability and durability are priorities over speed and must be able to handle me with no issues (6'4, 230lb guy). Leaning towards wider than most road bikes.
QUESTION: Are you going for 650b or 700c wheels? At your height, 700c wheels will look more proportional with the rest of the bike. Chris King, Phil Wood or White Industries hubs have the classic look in silver. Lace 'em with DT-Swiss double butted spokes.

Lighting : Something that mounts on the fender or headtube and has a polished steel appearance. Long-running battery powered or dynamo if it can be clean (too many wires)
Rear light with a polished steel appearance that fits on fender or near brakes
COMMENT: Hmmm... the current light offerings that mount on the front fender look fugly, IMO. I have seen some builders who completely overhaul the internals of those vintage French lights, but who knows at what cost and more importantly how do they perform. A mini front rack with a light mounted on the left side is the way to go for aesthetics, IMO. This is another hard decision: a nice flashlight/battery-operated-bike-specific light OR dynamo lighting. I would go for the battery-operated lights, first. One thing I would not miss is to ask the frame builder to install the new SON fork dropouts which will allow you to remove the front wheel without having to disconnect any cables. Should you ever decide to upgrade to dynamo lights, you'll be so pleased that you paid extra for those dropouts.

Saddle : Brooks B-17 Imperial, honey
COMMENT: Classy saddle indeed. The B17 Special with copper rivets also looks great.

Saddlebag : Brooks or other leather, honey
COMMENT: A small saddlebag is fine. For longer rides, might want to consider a front bag on a mini rack. On a rando bike, it's a good idea to balance some of the weight by putting some up front. It will help with aerodynamics compared to one of the bigger saddlebags.

Handlebar tape : Leather, honey
COMMENT: Yeah, tape must match the saddle. Try Nitto handlebars: Randonneur or Noodle.


Pump : Probably want a full frame pump, polished silver or painted to frame color, just hate the look of the pump on the bike.
COMMENT: Zéfal, Lezyne, or Topeak. A good combo of performance/looks. Otherwise, go for a clean/minimalist look and just carry a mini pump+CO2 in your bag.

Rowan

It strikes me that you already have the bike for you in the Raleigh. It just needs a makeover to get it equipped and looking the way you want it. You also might have to hunt around a bit to get the cranks with the right spider.

You can add a second set of bidon cage braze-ons with Rivnuts on the seat tube, below the extent of the seat post. The aero break levers take care of themselves.

The drivetrain will need attention, and if you want a good selection of gears (ie, a 9 or 10 speed cassette on the rear) you may need the rear dropouts spread (a relatively easy procedure). Only you can decide on the shifters, but aren't the newest Ultegra and Dura Ace levers aero with both cables under the handelbar tape? Then there is always Di2.

The one thing you haven't mentioned is handlebar bag. You could go the route of a leather bag on a rack a-la-Berthoud to balance the leather Brooks or similar on the rear. But that might upset the line of the bike.

There are plenty of mini pumps on the market that go inside a bag, so you are ahead there.

As to the light on the front, you will need to use steel or maybe aluminium fenders to provide stability for whatever light your choose. To get a polished silver one, in the shape you envisage, you might have to have someone make one up for you with a chromed outer and LED guts. Stephen's idea of having the light down on the front dropout also has its advantages in casting a longer shadow for road obstacles than lights up on the fork crown or handlebars.

You picture the Herse, and I believe Herse as a company has been revived. Have you investigated them yet for the options they provide?

And just looking at the pictures you posted, the most obvious difference in the two frames (as opposed to bikes) is the length of the head tube... and that will be what influences the design of the rest of the bike, in my opinion.


As to brakes, you'd have to do a lot of convincing to change my positive opinion of Ultegras... they are shiny, nicely smooth styling, and work very, very well.

Just some thoughts for you to sort through...

marqueemoon

Here's my idea of a "modern classic" bike.

I'd get one of the new Box Dog Pelican framesets built by Winter
Nitto or silver Soma HWY 1 compact bars
Old Salsa stem because I have had zero issues with them and they ride nicely.

Sugino OX801D crankset For gearing maybe 48/32 with an 12-28 cassette
I'd probably do 6600 or 6500 with DA downtube shifters as it's way nicer looking than the current generation Shimano stuff IMO (and cheaper)
Cane Creek SCR-5 brake levers, because I know my hands like them already
Brakes-wise I guess I'd try Paul MiniMotos

Depending on how much I used the bike a SON or PV-8 dynohub
White Industries rear hub
Pacenti or H+Son TB14 rims (the high polish looks great on these) with DT Comps and brass nipples

Fenders-wise I'm not sure - maybe steel Berthouds to class it up a little, but SKS work fine for me and silver would look adequately old school.

Racks, bags, lights I'm not sure.

Homeyba

I don't see the problem with either the Madone or the Raleigh. I've ridden a Colnago C-50 since 2005 on brevets up to 1200km, and a C-40 before that. I buy my bikes to ride, rain or shine or snow or sand storms, whatever. I ride them till they are dead so scratches or a little grime don't mean a whole lot to me. It just adds a little character. As far as having your bike stolen goes, I don't think your Madone looks any less expensive than my Colnago. To be honest, I've been a little concerned at times but it's never really been a problem. I'm almost always with someone and if it's a concern one of us will stay outside a store and watch the bikes or if we go into a restaurant I'll undo the rear skewer and sit where we can see them. I take comfort in the fact that most people really have no idea what bikes are worth, especially high end bikes.

I really don't get the retro thing. That's just me though so don't be offended. I've done 1200ks on high end 1970's bikes (Peugeot) and anyone who wants that experience can have at it. I'm very happy finishing 1200k's very comfortably on my C-50 with Mavic OP Ceramic wheels and Ultegra 10-speed. It is lugged carbon so I guess maybe it does have that retro look. Anyway, if you just want another bike, go for it. There is always room for another bike in the garage.

StephenH

That reminds me... when i started back riding, it was on a $100 mountain bike from Academy, and after a year or so, it was about ready for the junkpile...and that's when it got stolen. It couldn't have been worth more than $5 at that point. So value isn't really an issue on the theft, at least in the the "grab it and go" category.

hybridbkrdr

I looked into something like this for a while. The challenge for me is finding cream colored tires. There are Continental Tour Ride tires in places like Germany in cream color. I think there were some Schwalbe as well but can't remember right now. At one point, Origin8 had some gold colored headsets and seatpost clamps. There are also WTB saddles in brown. Oddly enough, I have a Nashbar touring frame in dark metallic green and the Origin8 gold seatpost clamp and headset. I'm saying it's odd because the project is not built up yet and I changed my idea about what I wanted to build after all. So, I'll likely build it and sell it. I have some Falcon friction shifters for it though. They look pretty solid (read positive comments for them).

Captain Blight

You mention that you're a bigfella. Well, I am, too, and am planning a custom build for myself as well. So, since we have almost exactly the same goals in mind, here are some decisions I came up with.

I want a "French fit" frame, which for me means a 65 or 66 cm frame. Unfortunately, this gives me about a yard of head tube, and throws the bike out of proportion. I'm still dithering on the 650B/700C question; I'm leaning toward the 650B option, as it builds into a slightly stronger wheel and lets me use the remarkable Grand Bois Hetre tires. But 650Bs on a 66 cm frame would look ridiculous! If I wanted a Moulton, I'd buy a Moulton!

The solution, for me, is a "Campeur" style frame, with a pair of lateral mid-stays running from the rear dropouts all the way up to the head tube. This does a couple things: First, it visually breaks up the very long head-tube, making the bike appear a bit smaller and more in proportion. With the increased rigidity they give the frame, I can go to a lighter tubeset. My framebuilder is of the opinion, and I agree, that they will increase lateral rigidity without giving up much in the way of vertical compliance. Along this design spiral, I realized that I could increase my chainstay length to accommodate a frame pump behind the seat-tube, and increase the wheelbase a little. Vertical dropouts, of course, because I don't want to have to deflate the rear tire every time I work on the wheel.


I'm going to use a 7-speed freewheel with half-step/bailout gearing, for 19 out of 21 unduplicated gear ratios. On a 130mm spacing and an asymmetrical rear rim, this gives me a near-dishless wheel. I may, down the road, consider an IGH... but for now, I'm going to use derailleur gears. Shifting duties will be handled by Suntour Command shift levers, a Suntour Cyclone 5000 rear mech, and a Super Record front. I've built a freewheel already, using a Sachs body and cogs but Suntour spacers, to get the intercog distance correct to work with the indexing on the Command levers. Handlbars are going to be either Modolo Grand Fondo, or the very nice Nitto/Grand Bois repros of the old AVA randonneur bars.

Brakes are to be Dia-Compe Royal Grand Comp aero levers controlling Mafac Raids on studs. Probably. Probably. The cantilever option would be nice to have. I may ask my frame guy to install two sets of stud bosses, one for the Mafacs and one for the cantis, and use screw-in studs. Honestly, this is probably going to be one of the hardest decisions I've to make on this build, and I'll be dithering right up to the last minute. I am also liking the idea of CLB guidonnet levers!

I'm sewing up a saddlebag of my own design out of waterproof Sunbrella in a nice shade of blue, and he's going to fabricate a custom support for it. Also a custom front rack for a handlebar bag support, as something down by the fender would make for an enormous bag, and I'm not really into that. We're toying with how to incorporate the ends of the mid-stays as a design element for this. I really don't do any long-range touring, and being able to hang panniers is nothing I'm interested in. If I *do* decide to go touring... well, a credit card packs awfully small. And I have other bikes.

At this point, lighting is pretty solidly decided on with a Shimano DH-3N80 front dynamo hub, and a Union bottom bracket dynamo as well. I don't notice any drag from either, and using switched headlamps (Custom LED conversions of dual-bulb Miller lamps) will let me reduce drag even further. Having the option to run one or both lights is nice, and I appreciate the redundancy: One system may go down, but probably not both at once.

Wow, that's a lot of words! I never run on like this. Hope it helps.

Savagewolf

It did, thank you Captain Blight, Homey, Unterhausen, Rowan and everyone who has responded. This is a ton of information to digest and I appreciate everyone's help. I still have yet to get the word that I'm on the list to get the bike built. The good thing is that my ideas are becoming a lot more solid as I wait, and I won't have to go to the builder with just some random ideas. I'll have a good plan ready to present rather than some random ideas.

Six jours

Don't we all.

Here is one of my versions:



It was new in 2007. The only thing on it that was not new and currently available at the time was the front derailleur; a Campagnolo Super Record unit from the mid-80s.

Barrettscv 

A few of the Soma bike frames work well for old-school builds, consider;

https://www.somafab.com/archives/prod...anyan-frameset

The Stanyan is our lugged road sport frame. This is a great choice for the century rider and credit card tourer who appreciates a more traditional look to his bike. Like most Soma frames it is ready for fenders or racks. Lugged Tange Prestige heat-treated butted CrMo steel; butted CrMo rear end.

The Soma San Marcos has longer chainstays and can fit bigger tires.

https://www.somafab.com/archives/prod...rcos-frame-set