NYC Congestion Pricing - it's a coming
01-31-08, 04:48 PM
#1
Destroyer of Wheels
Thread Starter
NYC Congestion Pricing - it's a coming
Promising
Streetsblog has gotten hold of the Traffic Congestion Mitigation Commission recommendation, which should be voted on this hour. According to the version we have (pdf), the commission's alternative to Mayor Bloomberg's plan is expected to exceed the 6.3% VMT reduction required by the federal government, and raise an estimated $491 million per year for mass transit. Other details include:
* An $8 fee to drive into Manhattan south of 60th Street on weekdays between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m.
* Trucks pay $21, except for low-emission trucks which pay $7
* East and west side highways would NOT be free; the cordon would start at bridge exits in Manhattan
* Increased on-street parking meter rates within the zone
* "[T]he commission recommends that the city be required to offer communities a residential parking permit program (RPP) prior to the start of congestion pricing and to track park-and-ride activity as part of a comprehensive monitoring program."
* Elimination of the resident parking tax exemption for off-street parking garages and lots within the zone
* "All funds from increased on-street parking rates and the elimination of the resident parking tax exemption within the zone should be dedicated by the City of New York to additional transit, pedestrian, bicycle, and parking management improvements, including, but not limited to, expanded ferry service, bus signalization, BRT investments, bicycle facilities, and pedestrian enhancements."
* For EZ Pass users, the value of all tolls would be deducted from the fee up to $8
* A $1 surcharge for motorists who don't use EZ Pass
* $1 surcharge on taxi and black car trips that start and end within the zone during pricing hours
* A lockbox, or "dedicated transit account," will be created, aimed mainly at funding the MTA Capital Plan
* Short-term strategic improvements to subway, bus, and express bus service should be put in place before pricing kicks in
* Traffic and environmental monitoring program in place before the start of pricing along with a thorough review along the lines of SEQRA
Passages from the recommendation report:
* "Compared to the Mayor’s plan, the Commission’s plan has considerably lower operating and capital costs and a simpler fee structure. By increasing both the cost of taxi trips and parking within the zone, the plan ensures that those who live inside the zone also pay for auto use. The plan will also reduce traffic in neighborhoods adjacent to the zone, decrease vehicle emissions, and benefit the City and regional economy."
* "In terms of economic equity, the Commission’s plan will negatively impact a small proportion of New Yorkers of limited income: those who drive to work in the CBD and have no feasible transit alternative. This group represents less than one percent of all commuters to the CBD."
* "[T]he Commission believes that the Commission’s plan is the first step towards a coordinated traffic management strategy for Manhattan and the region."
Originally Posted by .
Streetsblog has gotten hold of the Traffic Congestion Mitigation Commission recommendation, which should be voted on this hour. According to the version we have (pdf), the commission's alternative to Mayor Bloomberg's plan is expected to exceed the 6.3% VMT reduction required by the federal government, and raise an estimated $491 million per year for mass transit. Other details include:
* An $8 fee to drive into Manhattan south of 60th Street on weekdays between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m.
* Trucks pay $21, except for low-emission trucks which pay $7
* East and west side highways would NOT be free; the cordon would start at bridge exits in Manhattan
* Increased on-street parking meter rates within the zone
* "[T]he commission recommends that the city be required to offer communities a residential parking permit program (RPP) prior to the start of congestion pricing and to track park-and-ride activity as part of a comprehensive monitoring program."
* Elimination of the resident parking tax exemption for off-street parking garages and lots within the zone
* "All funds from increased on-street parking rates and the elimination of the resident parking tax exemption within the zone should be dedicated by the City of New York to additional transit, pedestrian, bicycle, and parking management improvements, including, but not limited to, expanded ferry service, bus signalization, BRT investments, bicycle facilities, and pedestrian enhancements."
* For EZ Pass users, the value of all tolls would be deducted from the fee up to $8
* A $1 surcharge for motorists who don't use EZ Pass
* $1 surcharge on taxi and black car trips that start and end within the zone during pricing hours
* A lockbox, or "dedicated transit account," will be created, aimed mainly at funding the MTA Capital Plan
* Short-term strategic improvements to subway, bus, and express bus service should be put in place before pricing kicks in
* Traffic and environmental monitoring program in place before the start of pricing along with a thorough review along the lines of SEQRA
Passages from the recommendation report:
* "Compared to the Mayor’s plan, the Commission’s plan has considerably lower operating and capital costs and a simpler fee structure. By increasing both the cost of taxi trips and parking within the zone, the plan ensures that those who live inside the zone also pay for auto use. The plan will also reduce traffic in neighborhoods adjacent to the zone, decrease vehicle emissions, and benefit the City and regional economy."
* "In terms of economic equity, the Commission’s plan will negatively impact a small proportion of New Yorkers of limited income: those who drive to work in the CBD and have no feasible transit alternative. This group represents less than one percent of all commuters to the CBD."
* "[T]he Commission believes that the Commission’s plan is the first step towards a coordinated traffic management strategy for Manhattan and the region."
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01-31-08, 05:38 PM
#2
Professional Fuss-Budget
Not exactly. ("Congestion Pricing Plan is Panned in Albany", NY Times, 1/31/08)
Last edited by Bacciagalupe; 01-31-08 at 05:49 PM.
01-31-08, 06:08 PM
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Promising... I really hope so. I don't think it's going to do much for congestion, but I hope it will raise more funds for alternative transit.
I'll be writing all my congresscritters to tell them I support it, primarily because it should raise money for mass and alternative transit. If you support it, let your reps know about it.
Imagine express buses with dedicated bus lanes... real bus lanes, not the ones every driver ignores in NYC.
Or real bike lanes so you wouldn't have to fight for space (as much) while riding around NYC.
Then again, I'm in a sour mood 'cause I almost became a hood ornament courtesy a right hook on York and 61st this evening. One of these days I'm not going to react fast enough when a car comes from behind and on my left and tries making a right when I'm 5 feet from the intersection...
I'll be writing all my congresscritters to tell them I support it, primarily because it should raise money for mass and alternative transit. If you support it, let your reps know about it.
Imagine express buses with dedicated bus lanes... real bus lanes, not the ones every driver ignores in NYC.
Or real bike lanes so you wouldn't have to fight for space (as much) while riding around NYC.
Then again, I'm in a sour mood 'cause I almost became a hood ornament courtesy a right hook on York and 61st this evening. One of these days I'm not going to react fast enough when a car comes from behind and on my left and tries making a right when I'm 5 feet from the intersection...
01-31-08, 09:58 PM
#4
Senior Member
Well, I can't agree with this plan.
What it will do is clear the streets of NYers that can take the subway so that the commuters from NJ can come in for free. No way that'll pass.
What it will do is clear the streets of NYers that can take the subway so that the commuters from NJ can come in for free. No way that'll pass.
02-01-08, 11:11 AM
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Just another tax. It will not make a dent in traffic congestion.
As long as traffic agents stand on corners in groups and allow buses and trucks to block intesections we'll be in the same mess.
Although I'm an advid cyclist I'm in a serivce business that requires a car in Manahattan.
I'd gladly twice that fee if I thought it would help.
As long as traffic agents stand on corners in groups and allow buses and trucks to block intesections we'll be in the same mess.
Although I'm an advid cyclist I'm in a serivce business that requires a car in Manahattan.
I'd gladly twice that fee if I thought it would help.
02-01-08, 12:08 PM
#6
stole your bike
I'm curious as to how many people would see this as a deterent though because most people drive into the city so as not to rely on public transportation. Perhaps they'll just see it as another expense associated with coming into the city. The residential parking permit idea is an interesting one though because the one thing few want to pay for is parking; $8 is one thing but $20-$30 is another. I'm thrilled the greenway has come such a long way because it minimizes the time I need to spend in traffic.
02-01-08, 12:13 PM
#7
Destroyer of Wheels
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Remember it's not that you'll walk along Houston and not see any cars. They're looking to cut a small percentage to start and adjust until the appropriate amount of people are in.
I don't like the fact that NJ drivers won't pay anything extra - that's a bit messed up but I'm sure will be a bargaining chip. I do like that all the revenue is supposed to go towards public transportation and bike/ped upgrades. If it does that would be great...though I have my doubts.
It's a great first step - let's see what happens but write in to support it!
I don't like the fact that NJ drivers won't pay anything extra - that's a bit messed up but I'm sure will be a bargaining chip. I do like that all the revenue is supposed to go towards public transportation and bike/ped upgrades. If it does that would be great...though I have my doubts.
It's a great first step - let's see what happens but write in to support it!
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02-01-08, 12:20 PM
#8
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I don't necessarily think it will make any significant improvement in traffic congestion or pollution, however, I think it's a step in the right direction.
Unless the metro area bucks its current trend, the population will only grow. That means even more people will drive in, even if that percentage is relatively small based on the population. That just boils down to increased congestion and pollution.
I don't see any movement by anyone opposing congestion pricing to voluntarily try to reduce congestion and pollution or to help support expanded mass and alternative transit. I haven't heard anyone say the situation will improve without us doing anything.
I'm not sure it's the best plan out there, but the idea to improve and increase mass and alternative transit is one I support, and congestion pricing can help fund it. As for improving air quality and reducing pollution, I think that needs to be addressed at a larger level, but every little bit helps.
Unless the metro area bucks its current trend, the population will only grow. That means even more people will drive in, even if that percentage is relatively small based on the population. That just boils down to increased congestion and pollution.
I don't see any movement by anyone opposing congestion pricing to voluntarily try to reduce congestion and pollution or to help support expanded mass and alternative transit. I haven't heard anyone say the situation will improve without us doing anything.
I'm not sure it's the best plan out there, but the idea to improve and increase mass and alternative transit is one I support, and congestion pricing can help fund it. As for improving air quality and reducing pollution, I think that needs to be addressed at a larger level, but every little bit helps.
02-01-08, 12:29 PM
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Remember it's not that you'll walk along Houston and not see any cars. They're looking to cut a small percentage to start and adjust until the appropriate amount of people are in.
I don't like the fact that NJ drivers won't pay anything extra - that's a bit messed up but I'm sure will be a bargaining chip. I do like that all the revenue is supposed to go towards public transportation and bike/ped upgrades. If it does that would be great...though I have my doubts.
It's a great first step - let's see what happens but write in to support it!
I don't like the fact that NJ drivers won't pay anything extra - that's a bit messed up but I'm sure will be a bargaining chip. I do like that all the revenue is supposed to go towards public transportation and bike/ped upgrades. If it does that would be great...though I have my doubts.
It's a great first step - let's see what happens but write in to support it!
Last edited by Stacy; 02-01-08 at 12:44 PM.
02-05-08, 02:58 AM
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Unfortunately I fail to see how it will change anything at all. It will eventually trickle down to all of us in the cost of doing business. As we have seen in the past it will help to cause firms doing business in the city to look to relocate in areas that cost less or the city will give tax incentives to them. Right now I tend to think it's a bit of smoke and mirrors more than a well thought out plan. I would just like to see them close a few streets to vehicles except residents, but that is a fairytale too.
02-05-08, 09:17 PM
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Many would argue that the congestion is caused by Manhattan residents and interborough traffic, but I really believe that that is not the case and it is the suburban and NJ residents. I am personal proof of this as I work in NJ and have to enter/exit Manhattan sometimes three times a week and sometimes twice a day.
* A lockbox, or "dedicated transit account," will be created, aimed mainly at funding the MTA Capital Plan
2nd Avenue Subway (10+ yr project)
Grand Central Terminal Expansion
However, there are two very positive projects:
East Side Access
Fulton Central Station
Finally a question: How does someone entering the CBD from the north get tolled?
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02-05-08, 10:19 PM
#13
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Exactly.
Many would argue that the congestion is caused by Manhattan residents and interborough traffic, but I really believe that that is not the case and it is the suburban and NJ residents. I am personal proof of this as I work in NJ and have to enter/exit Manhattan sometimes three times a week and sometimes twice a day.
This is a concern of mine, as I believe the most expensive programs will not positively impact our straphangers as much as simple service improvements. Capital Projects include:
2nd Avenue Subway (10+ yr project)
Grand Central Terminal Expansion
However, there are two very positive projects:
East Side Access
Fulton Central Station
Finally a question: How does someone entering the CBD from the north get tolled?
Many would argue that the congestion is caused by Manhattan residents and interborough traffic, but I really believe that that is not the case and it is the suburban and NJ residents. I am personal proof of this as I work in NJ and have to enter/exit Manhattan sometimes three times a week and sometimes twice a day.
This is a concern of mine, as I believe the most expensive programs will not positively impact our straphangers as much as simple service improvements. Capital Projects include:
2nd Avenue Subway (10+ yr project)
Grand Central Terminal Expansion
However, there are two very positive projects:
East Side Access
Fulton Central Station
Finally a question: How does someone entering the CBD from the north get tolled?
All vehicles will be tolled either by their EZ-Pass or license plate recognition. There will be a $1 surcharge if you don't use EZ-Pass.
I now live in Manhattan, and am not happy about the fact that I will lose my parking tax exemption (my car is parked below 60th St), and will have to pay $8 to use it when I want to go to the beach or go shopping. I work weekends and my days off are during the week.
02-05-08, 10:31 PM
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A recent survey said that "only" about a third of Manhattanites own cars. I was surprised the figure was that high. Most of the people I know who live downtown and actually own cars keep them in parking lots or garages during the week and only use them to get out of town on weekends. Some people even share cars because they don't use them enough to justify the high cost of owning one.
The survey also said that something like 28% of cars in Manhattan are cruising for a parking space. Back in the day when I owned a car I had to move it, from one side of the street to the other, every day,whether I wanted to use it or not. Maybe if parking regulations for residents was a bit more flexible, and drivers didn't have to circle the block 10 times looking for a space, there'd be less traffic.
The survey also said that something like 28% of cars in Manhattan are cruising for a parking space. Back in the day when I owned a car I had to move it, from one side of the street to the other, every day,whether I wanted to use it or not. Maybe if parking regulations for residents was a bit more flexible, and drivers didn't have to circle the block 10 times looking for a space, there'd be less traffic.
02-06-08, 11:13 AM
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The mind set of many New Yorkers is to just suck it up and pay. Until the TA starts making travel with bikes into the city easier I see no great benefit. You cannot bring a bike on a train at rush hour and on off peak times they will allow no more than two and if your lucky three bikes on one train. Like PD parking permits seem to be given out so freely I see exemptions to the tax plan also will be given out the same way. The plan is nothing but a money raising tax that I don't see going to solving anything but pay raises for over paid bureaucrats. It may have worked in London ,and I salute them, but unfortunately folks in England tend to look at things in a different light. Until you change the attitude of drivers into NYC I don't see any change. Mayor Michael needs to look at other way in addition to this one.
02-06-08, 01:01 PM
#16
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There needs to be a tipping point where the time and cost of public transportation is worth the savings over driving. This means increasing the costs of driving and parking in the city while lowering the cost of LIRR, MetroNorth, NJ Transit, subways and buses.
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02-06-08, 06:40 PM
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Another good point Air.
02-07-08, 07:57 AM
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the mta in terms of the subway does not monitor the number of bikes on a train or when they are used at all. if they have rules they are not enforced. however, try bringing a bike on a subway at rush hour.
02-07-08, 09:12 AM
#19
Destroyer of Wheels
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There's just a space issue - walkers and baby strollers are cursed at during rush hour too.
Now triple the service and create seats during the height of rush hour as a result of congestion pricing and watch people embrace it with open arms.
Now triple the service and create seats during the height of rush hour as a result of congestion pricing and watch people embrace it with open arms.
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02-07-08, 11:25 AM
#20
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Just make it a point to create dedicated bus and bike lanes to expand mass and alternative transit. Take away space for other vehicles as necessary. Actively create more congestion, maybe that will persuade people to take mass transit or ride a bike or something.
02-07-08, 12:04 PM
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My ref. to "train" was surface rail such as the LIRR and MNRR. Trying to take a bike into the hole during the rush is bordering on the insane.
02-10-08, 09:33 AM
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BTW: Has anyone stopped to consider where they can build the toll booths? How many $100 million buildings will they have to knock down to install the toll plazas? And what happens to the air quality for the other buildings that are now conveniently located next to thousands of idling vehicles 24 hours a day?
I'm all for reducing congestion, but let's face it, this is an asinine idea. Plus the only congestion this plan is addressing in the congestion caused by too many dollar bills in the tax payer's pockets.
If they actually wanted to reduce congestion, they would start with $5000 fines for double parking and grid locking. They would start with a policy where any officer on the street and not on a call is required to write the ticket with failing to do so being actionable.
If they really wanted to reduce congestion, they'd build a straight through bypass from Long Island to Jersey without Manhattan access.
If they really wanted to reduce congestion, they'd build big enough free parking lots at key subway access points in Williamsburg, Red Hook, Long Island City, the Bronx, etc. If I could park my car and take the train there's no way I would EVER drive into the city during peak hours
This is really only about one thing: revenue
Last edited by nycphotography; 02-10-08 at 09:38 AM.
02-10-08, 03:28 PM
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There is an increasing number of cars and people and a constant amount of space.
I've said before that they should enforce the gridlock laws and the double and illegal parking laws.
This will allow traffic to move more efficiently through the city.
They will not do this or any of the suggestions made by nycphotography.
They'll do the next best thing in their interest....CHARGE THE MOTORIST.
I've said before that they should enforce the gridlock laws and the double and illegal parking laws.
This will allow traffic to move more efficiently through the city.
They will not do this or any of the suggestions made by nycphotography.
They'll do the next best thing in their interest....CHARGE THE MOTORIST.
02-10-08, 05:20 PM
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If they really wanted to reduce congestion, they'd build big enough free parking lots at key subway access points in Williamsburg, Red Hook, Long Island City, the Bronx, etc. If I could park my car and take the train there's no way I would EVER drive into the city during peak hours
This is really only about one thing: revenue
This is really only about one thing: revenue
02-10-08, 08:49 PM
#25
Professional Fuss-Budget
I'm not quite as negative about this as some folks, but I seriously doubt this plan will get enacted. There's too much political opposition, traffic will snarl fiercely above 60th, taxi drivers will pitch a fit (anyone besides me try to pay for a taxi by credit card yet? 
), prices for goods below 60th will go up.
And considering that the MTA is in charge of a lot of public transportation in NYC, I don't have much confidence that tossing millions at them is going to produce a tangible benefit.
It'd be great to reduce vehicular traffic in Manhattan. But if that's the goal, why not set all bridge and tunnel entrance fees to $15 and be done with it?
...and it would gut a nice chunk of the economy. Why not get all the businesses and residents to relocate, too, while we're at it?
), prices for goods below 60th will go up.And considering that the MTA is in charge of a lot of public transportation in NYC, I don't have much confidence that tossing millions at them is going to produce a tangible benefit.
It'd be great to reduce vehicular traffic in Manhattan. But if that's the goal, why not set all bridge and tunnel entrance fees to $15 and be done with it?