Stucky

Because gaining one small benefit [convenience, for those who can't take one hand off of the bars for 1 second) in exchange for giving up 7 other benefits...THAT is faulty logic. (But I agree about the weight- It's not enough to matter- but seems to count for a lot around here when people are touting the latest & greatest)

Nope! But it wouldn't make them any slower; and would give them more control and more tactile feel [which, of course, is purely aesthetic- but aesthetics do figure significantly into cycling].

I could really care less what others like and ride- but the two things which really bother me are: The fact that one can no longer commonly buy new bikes with DT shifters/bosses; and the fact that many people riding brifters today are convinced that they are the greatest thing since terlit paper, but have never actually had the opportunity to ride DT shifters.

Ride whatever you like...but don't deny the superiority of something just because you don't personally like it. If you'll observe, I don't even own a bike with DT shifters. (But I will in the future)

svtmike

Sage advice. You might try it out.

Fact is, most riders don't want to have to remove a hand to shift and that one reason typically trumps anything you can say about downtube shifters. I personally love being able to shift any time I want, without having to worry if it's a wise idea to take a hand off the bars. Fact is, indexed shifting has become so reliable that the need to make very fine adjustments is relegated to the truly OCD. But you can have the best of both worlds if you want friction shifting and hands on hoods ...



The pictured version even supports your hydraulic disc brakes!

benlees

I've had a couple of bikes recently that had DT shifters. I always ride them for awhile awash in a nostalgic coma- then I need to shift while in traffic with dirty pot-holed roads for company. Brifters are awesome; the DT's are quickly replaced. Ask Steve Bauer about when he took out Criquelon during the worlds in 1988.

Blue Belly

i don't have those issues at all. However, if it was a serious race situation id certainly want every little advantage I could get.

gregf83 

Some people are have a type A personality and like to compete, both with themselves and against others. Some people have a more laid back type B personality and are more content to ride and 'smell the roses' and don't care how fast they're going.


We get that you don't care. Others do.

sleepy

"When we were kids on cheap heavy7 bikes, we probably got more enjoyment out of cycling than we ever will as adults with mega-thousand dollar technologically-festooned electronically encrusted bikes, because it was more about just riding, than the equipment and the numbers. "

I thought of my daughter pedaling happily around the courtyard reading that quote.

But you lost me at the Downtube shifters. I had them on an old RB-1 I had rebuilt with a 7 speed index drivetrain. And yes, I did feel like I was riding an actual bicycle. But I love climbing. I love standing and shifting. The RB-1 one did not incite that kind of love. A stiff CAAD10 with STI's does ignite that kind of passion. The fact that it's easier to find cheap sti's than dt's shows that it's very unlikely they'll make a comeback anytime soon. But the resurgence of fixies does illustrate that the ever evolving obsolescence of bike parts is getting ridiculous.

Didn't think Roadie Racers would be so serious on regular roadie forum posts pointing out the inherent silliness of split seconds and watts and instant stopping. Winning 50 bucks and a jar of bike lube totally justifies a multi-thousand dollar bike and gear, I guess.

caloso

You would be surprised how much time is spent in the 33 arguing over these questions of equipment.

Stucky

Now who said anything about friction shifting?[Not that I dislike it]. They *did* make indexed DT shifters. They were nice. I'm not the most skillful rider; not the best bike handler....but sheesh, even for me, taking a second to reach down and flick a lever, is no big deal. Used to do it on the [congested, bumpy] streets of NYC, no problem.

sleepy

That's nice. Try doing that going up Fargo street or nice long climb with varying grades.

Stucky

You mean like the hills where I ride now? Yeah...no one ever rode in SF before brifters were invented.....

DT's have the advantage in hilly terrain: You can go from the 25t to the 11t with ONE quick flick of the lever...instead of flailing-away with the little inner lever 10 times...click!click!click!click!click!click!click!click!

svtmike

I'm aware that indexed shifting started on DT shifters. And I still prefer to leave my hands right where they are and just flick a lever. But I suspect I might push my riding envelope a bit more than you do yours and thus my preference for minimal arm movement.

You said this:

Quote:

Where can I get a decent bike today with downtube shifter bosses? I dislike brifters. Needless weight; they obliterate the ability to feel what I'm doing; they limit how I can trim the FD; they are grossly inefficient. But they have taken over; and if I want a bike with DT's, my only choices are C&V; low-end Bikesdirect bikes; or super high-end/custom. It's going to go the same way with brakes, sadly.

Sounded to me like you like friction shifting, certainly on the FD and possibly on the RD. Sorry if I misunderstood that nuance. Anyway, those shifters allow you to switch between indexed and friction shifting.

svtmike

"Flailing away"? What a sight you must be if you are doing that! 9 little clicks on a ten speed cassette. Easy breezy.

icyclist 

Ah, Fargo Street. On that street, though, most people have to start in their lowest gear and keep it there.

Brian Ratliff

buzz. incorrect.

Some benefits are, of course, worth more than others, and these factor differently depending on the person. This should be pretty obvious. The world would be a very different place if all benefits and dis-benefits were weighed equally all the time. I'd be embarrassed to write what you just wrote in the quoted line.

What's your deal anyway? You argue like a luddite but you apparently own a '13 Specialized Venge Expert. I mean, pretty sweet bike for someone all up in the grill about people choosing brake lever shifters over downtube...



Ah well... maybe just arguing for entertainment. Everyone does that every once in a while...

D1andonlyDman

As John Cleese might say: "He could be arguing in his spare time".

badger1

Nope, sorry ... wrong again. Your 'fixie' reference is ... oh, 5 -6? years off-trend now?? Anyway, thought you'd enjoy this little aspirational 'life-style' video.
BTW, I'm very likely even more "old weak slow & Fredly" than you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grad9m2K5g0

badger1

D__n; here I thought I'd be first in ...
'No you didn't'
'Yes, I did'
'NO, you DIDn't'
... oh well!

bt

someone, anyone show this person how to level a saddle!

Stucky

Now THAT'S a valid point. Finally [Although, just liking them as a preference is perfectly fine]

I believe that all front downtube shifters are friction; rear can be either. (Have you actually ever ridden with DTs?)

Yes, 9 (or 10 on an 11-speed)....just go "click" nine times...sheesh! That's a pretty big chunk of time in a sport where people cry over a few fractions of a second. Now you go "click!" nine times, while I go "flick" once. I'm in 11t for the descent, while you're just on 23t....see ya!

Darn! I like the color scheme on that one better than mine (red & white)!

Yeah, I like the Venge well-enough. I'd like it even better if it had DTs.

BTW: My complaint isn't "people choosing brifters"...ride what you like- even disc brakes - It's the fact that we don't have a choice today (i.e. DTs or brifters)- and soon, that may be the case with brakes, too.

But I can appreciate moidern bikes- I just don't think that the features they possess make all the difference that some people credit them with.

Part of the reason I have the venge, is because I really wanted to see for myself what all the fuss was about regarding carbon frames and other modern quality components- so when I saw it on CL for a reasonable price, I snagged it. That is actually partly why I am so disappointed that one can no longer get frames with DT bosses; because aesthetically, these nice bikes can indeed spoil one- but if I want the advantages of DT shifters....I am forced to buy 20+ year-old bikes.... I find it sad that a superior technology gets buried- is no longer even an option, just because some marketers pushed for change for change's sake; and that they pushed it so hard, that half the people alive today don't seem to remember that that is what the whole world rode for half a century.

Darn! I like that color scheme! Here's mine, from the "Pics Of Your Bike Near Water" thread:

colnago62

You can run the cogset with Dura Ace 11 speed. You hold the lever down and bam. Next.

Salubrious

After reading through this thread I find that most of the explanations of why a more expensive bike are a mile off the mark.

I have to qualify this by saying this only applies to me. I've struggled with a lot of mid-priced machines that simply don't fit. I finally realized that if I was going to be comfortable it might mean getting a custom frame that does what I want to do, rather than me doing what the manufacturer thinks I should do.

I'm not as young as I used to be (none of us are...so I am not worried about the nth degree of speed I can make- there is far more to it than just that) and the simple fact is that in order to go on a long ride I have to be able to stay on the bike. So it has to to be comfortable. Plus the bike has to do what I want. So I got a custom frame made that has the more relaxed geometry that most high end bikes don't seem to have. I got it made stainless so that the frame will still be around 20 years from now, yet it is lighter than regular steel or titanium and is springy and responsive. I don't want a frame that might become dangerous if the bike accidentally falls over. Its designed for a Rolhoff hub so I don't have to put up with pesky derailluer crap (I worked in a bike shop and I hate derailleurs). Switch gears anytime, true progressive shifting, reliability, indexed shifting (the hub manages that not the shifter) and I can shift all the way across the dial in a heartbeat- what's not to like? The frame handles all the cable routing; the shifter is on the drops.

Overall the resulting bike weighs 20 pounds before I load it with all the water bottles, lighting, pump and racks and saddlebags. The frame is fitted so all that stuff including fenders just bolts up.

I commute, gravel ride, tour and race (Dairyland Dare if anyone is interested) all on the same bike. The relaxed geometry makes a difference when descending- stability is the name of the game at speed. That fast steering geometry that is so common is for the birds, at least for me. I stayed away from carbon for the most part, although there is some on the handlebars and seatpost. Its a little heavier, but the flip side is its also more comfortable. 50 or 100 miles down the road that means I am not as tired; the bike is comfortable not just for the geometry but also because it is custom fitted to me.

Just my opinion of course but if you are not getting this for your $6000 you got punked Maybe I am poor or something but I have a lot of trouble with the idea that I'm going to spend 6 grand on a bike that is only good for racing. My bike suits my racing style and I can tour on it as well.

colnago62

I think if you paid 6 grand for a 20 pound bike, you got punked ;-)

sleepy

Click click cl-? LOL wut.

You know you can do it in 3 sweeps, right? While standing? There's something to be said about sailing up, standing and shifting and keeping momentum. It's a lovely experience, and much more fun than hunkering down and worrying about being on the wrong gear on sudden grade change.

Again, I can sorta sympathize, having been with a DT shifting bike for a couple of months. It's fun, and you do feel more in tune with the bike. There is a sense of accomplishment doing a century and bla bla nostalgia. But it's also really cool to fly up or down shifting at will, and not having to dig up retro sites or dig around bike co-ops for spare parts.

I'm just irritated at the likelihood of switching to disc brakes. New standards, rotor rubbing [and bug off with that "proper maintenance" garbage. My idea of maintenance is squirting lube on a chain, why make it harder?], and fugly shifters-not to mention cost. Or electric crap. There's something nice about cable actuated shifting. Something about being able to fiddle with and not worrying about charging up like a phone.

svtmike

Many years ago, probably early '90s was the last time. I didn't ride for a bunch of years raising my kids and when I got back to it the death of DTs was a very welcome advance to me.

You might be able to reach down, dump the gears, and get your hand back on the bar faster than I can click, but it really doesn't matter because even if we are riding down a cliff we don't truly need the 11 that fast anyway. A much more common scenario is needing to grab a bunch of gears the other way. Again it is rare to need to go from the 11 all the way to the top but if you do it is three fast lever pushes away.

svtmike

Stucky, looking at your bike -- you ride a much smaller frame than I do. I typically ride a 61 in Specialized bikes. As frames get larger, the downtube gets farther away from the rider; our longer arms don't make up the distance. So what may be an easy hand movement for you is a shoulder dip for me.