Originally Posted by sam_cyclist

Actually, tiagra shifting is theoretically better since the cables and housing are exposed.

Originally Posted by sam_cyclist

"Getting it right" doesn't mean anything. Either the shifting is better or it isn't. And it isn't.

Giving "more weight" to people who agree with you is not the same as evidence.

Originally Posted by sam_cyclist

Well this is closer to the truth. But then, the fact that he doesn't have dura ace is going to bother him. After he gets dura ace, he'll "need" dura ace "wif da fancy electronic doo hickey stuff." And then 12 speed will be released, and then.....

Originally Posted by dtrain

4600 is possibly better than 5700, I don't know. I don't feel like my 5700 bike shifts any better than my 5600/6600 bike did. The friction in Shimano's first 'under the tape' routing design is an issue for sure.

Originally Posted by floridamtb

I'm considering my next upgrade. right now I have Shimano R565 50/34 cranks paired to a 105 11/25 cassette. I'm going to go either 105 or Ultegra 11/23 cassette and want to swap out the cranks for a standard 54/39 but not sure if I should go Ultegra or 105. I only ride the flats here in south Florida, I don't race, maybe once a year I travel to Virginia to ride mountains so weight isn't an issue. I have Ultegra RD & FD so other than keeping the groupset the same is there any real reason to go Ultegra over the 105? What would you do?

Originally Posted by dtrain

What's your evidence that it isn't better? Since you are stating it as fact.

At least I said this was my conclusion...and traced how I got there.

Originally Posted by sam_cyclist

Well this is closer to the truth. But then, the fact that he doesn't have dura ace is going to bother him. After he gets dura ace, he'll "need" dura ace "wif da fancy electronic doo hickey stuff." And then 12 speed will be released, and then.....

Originally Posted by growlerdinky

Get the Ultegra. I just like to talk out of my a-- and throw a tantrum when people question me for my lack of facts.

Now that I think of it, just ignore me, I have no idea what I'm talking about. If you disagree with my drivel, I call you "toolgirl!" Derp.

Originally Posted by sam_cyclist

I test rode 105 11 on at least 5 different occasions. Same with tiagra 10. I couldn't notice a difference in shift quality front or rear.

Who knows, perhaps there's a difference for a 280 pounder grinding up a 15 percent grade. Although that scenario seems rather unlikely.

Originally Posted by sam_cyclist

All growl, no bite.

Originally Posted by growlerdinky

So why am I getting upset? What is the issue here, ultimately? Is it my lack of facts? My goofy tantrums? An inability to understand the fact that OP is whining when he actually gets answers to his questions? I know I should've gotten that GED at some point. I need to think about this some more. Bye.

Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht

a very smooth shift to the big ring, and dropped chains are different issues. Proper tuning should eliminate dropped chains, but better shift ramps on the big ring(and tooth profile) improves shifts to the big ring.

Originally Posted by dtrain

I see. So your experience is fact, while my experience is a placebo-influenced false claim.

Originally Posted by sam_cyclist

Internetz is confusing, bro. Take your time.

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff

• Immediate shift from low to high without having to "baby" the shifter or let off the torque on the pedals.
• Immediate shift from high to low under climbing torque without throwing the chain or having to let up on the pedals.
• Short shifter throw with little pressure.
• Speed of shift comparable or better than rear shifting cluster.

Basically, "improved shifting" is moving towards effortless and continuous shifting. Improvement means trending towards zero time to shift, zero effort, and zero interruption of pedaling.

But you are right, if you can't tell or don't care about the above list, then you can save the money. This is why 105 and Tiagra exist. I do remember back 10 years ago when I got my first Ultegra shifters (6600) moving from 2000 era Campy Veloce, I was blow away by the quality, precision and ease of shifting of Ultegra.

Originally Posted by dtrain

Here are a couple quotes from reviews of 5800. I'm not a 'latest and greatest' type of consumer (my car is an '01), and take most reviews with a grain of salt. But the front shifting of the Shimano 11sp stuff is consistently praised. I've run the previous three generations of 105. 5800 feels very smooth and the throw to engage a front shift is much shorter/quicker. The front shifting is the biggest upgrade (IMO) over 5700. There are other differences (coated cables, braking, and hood shape/feel), but those are minimal and some aren't universally better.

"The design of the new front mech is probably the most obvious change with the newly shaped link arm. It's longer to create more leverage and therefore less effort to effect the shift. Couple that with a new spring mechanism and the shifting is smooth, fast and precise."
Shimano 105 5800 11-speed Groupset review | road.cc

"The front derailleurs are equipped with a redesigned pull arm and spring mechanism for improved shift accuracy and an extremely light touch. Like the other 11 speed groups, the FD-5800 has a new lower trim position that will help decrease chain drop."
First Look: New Shimano 105 11-Speed Group, Plus New Mechanical + Hydraulic Road Disc Brakes!

Originally Posted by floridamtb

I'm considering my next upgrade. right now I have Shimano R565 50/34 cranks paired to a 105 11/25 cassette. I'm going to go either 105 or Ultegra 11/23 cassette and want to swap out the cranks for a standard 54/39 but not sure if I should go Ultegra or 105. I only ride the flats here in south Florida, I don't race, maybe once a year I travel to Virginia to ride mountains so weight isn't an issue. I have Ultegra RD & FD so other than keeping the groupset the same is there any real reason to go Ultegra over the 105? What would you do?

Originally Posted by growlerdinky

Well, there you go, OP. Sam gave you the thumbs up, and insulted your intelligence to boot, so go ahead and get the crankset. It's a win-win for everyone!

Originally Posted by cale

Wasn't this post about cranks? No fair bringing shifters and derailleurs into the mix.

Originally Posted by dtrain

Started that way, yes. The 'front shifting' was referenced (as a system) here with the claim that 4600, 5800, and 6800 were a wash; which is what I've been responding to:
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...l#post17842336

I certainly agree with your point, though. Replacing an r565 crank with a 6700 in a 6700 group isn't going to have anywhere near the impact as going full 6800 would. So much of this is 'unfair' to the original OP's question.

Originally Posted by sam_cyclist

Facts are facts. Sorry to point them out to you and OP.

In before: "you girl tool! Me hate you so much!"

Originally Posted by bleui

This. Even if you need a bigger ring you can just change the chainring to 52-36.

And I'm all for a mismatch grouppo, it kinda tells that you understand about your components selection and people would assume that you build it yourself instead of buying a full OEM bike

Originally Posted by rideBjj

Yea, the OCD "components must match" people on here would probably have a fit looking at either of my bikes.

Campy shifters, brakes, and RD. Shimano wheels, cassette. Sram Crank, FD and chain. Running the gamut from Centaur, to Record 11, to Rival, force and Red plus Ultegra casettes.

The various combos all work super good, too.

Rise, FrankenBike!

Originally Posted by sam_cyclist

I test rode 105 11 on at least 5 different occasions. Same with tiagra 10. I couldn't notice a difference in shift quality front or rear.

Who knows, perhaps there's a difference for a 280 pounder grinding up a 15 percent grade. Although that scenario seems rather unlikely.