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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 06-01-15, 06:23 PM   #1
rms13
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Question about upgrading hub on my wheel to 11 speed

I have a set of 10 speed Vuelta wheels. They sell an 11 speed upgrade kit for a reasonable price. I was thinking about buying it to upgrade my old wheels for back ups. They have no documentation on what is needed to install. I emailed them directly and asked for instructions before deciding to purchase and they replied:

Thanks for writing.

If you have not performed any major service or repair on your bicycle, it is highly recommended that you have it serviced by your local bike shop where they have the tools and experience to perform the installation or upgrade correctly.

While your wheels are being upgraded, this would also be the perfect time to have your local bike shop inspect and service the rest of your bike so that all components and systems are adjusted and ready to perform as expected the next time you ride.

This should answer your question.

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WTF...that doesn't answer my question. Anyone know what tools are required to do the hub upgrade?
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Old 06-01-15, 06:39 PM   #2
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On common Taiwanese hubs with sealed cartridge bearings only a 5 mm Allen wrench is needed. It is really incredibly easy. Since the over-locknut dimension doesn't change or the center of the hub move, redishing isn't necessary. If your hubs are anything like this, you should have no trouble. You can easily check them out before ordering the parts.
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Old 06-01-15, 06:49 PM   #3
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On common Taiwanese hubs with sealed cartridge bearings only a 5 mm Allen wrench is needed. It is really incredibly easy. Since the over-locknut dimension doesn't change or the center of the hub move, redishing isn't necessary. If your hubs are anything like this, you should have no trouble. You can easily check them out before ordering the parts.
Thanks, that's a more reasonable answer haha. I'll check them tonight
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Old 06-02-15, 07:22 AM   #4
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Reynolds also sells an 11 speed cassette to fit 10 speed wheels, not sure what the cost is?
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Old 06-02-15, 07:57 AM   #5
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Reynolds also sells an 11 speed cassette to fit 10 speed wheels, not sure what the cost is?
Cool story bro, but how does that help the OP?
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Old 06-02-15, 08:05 AM   #6
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Cool story bro, but how does that help the OP?
I think it could help anyone with 10 speed wheels wanting to go 11 speed and not have to purchase wheels or hub to do so.
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Old 06-02-15, 08:20 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
On common Taiwanese hubs with sealed cartridge bearings only a 5 mm Allen wrench is needed. It is really incredibly easy. Since the over-locknut dimension doesn't change or the center of the hub move, redishing isn't necessary. If your hubs are anything like this, you should have no trouble. You can easily check them out before ordering the parts.
That's not entirely correct.

Since the 10/11 SPD freehub is 1.85mm longer than the 8/9/10spd freehub the worst case scenario impacts both OLD and center to flange dimensions by just that much.

What many brands have chosen to do is a combination of machining of DS flanges and accepting the OLD as 131mm in an effort to have as little impact on existing hub dimensions as possible.

Another issue then becomes about chain line. Simply swapping freehubs will result in this being off somewhere around 1mm - 1.85mm or so. This can create clattery drivetrains and impact shifting performance at the extreme end of the freehub.

Another concern is how deeply the grooves on the 10/11 SPD freehubs travel down to the base of the freehub vs on the 8/9/10 SPD versions. This can place the largest cog too close to the spokes and can either make the chain rub on the spokes or, much worse, can result in the rear der getting caught in the spokes, spun around and ripped off the bike trashing the hanger, the dérailleur and maybe even the wheel itself.

There are plenty of dealers or resellers who will tell you that all you need to do is swap freehub bodies but this is not always the case. I strongly suggest you contact the manufacturer and get specific instructions on what is and isn't possible.
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Old 06-02-15, 10:55 AM   #8
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That's not entirely correct.

Since the 10/11 SPD freehub is 1.85mm longer than the 8/9/10spd freehub the worst case scenario impacts both OLD and center to flange dimensions by just that much.

What many brands have chosen to do is a combination of machining of DS flanges and accepting the OLD as 131mm in an effort to have as little impact on existing hub dimensions as possible.

Another issue then becomes about chain line. Simply swapping freehubs will result in this being off somewhere around 1mm - 1.85mm or so. This can create clattery drivetrains and impact shifting performance at the extreme end of the freehub.

Another concern is how deeply the grooves on the 10/11 SPD freehubs travel down to the base of the freehub vs on the 8/9/10 SPD versions. This can place the largest cog too close to the spokes and can either make the chain rub on the spokes or, much worse, can result in the rear der getting caught in the spokes, spun around and ripped off the bike trashing the hanger, the dérailleur and maybe even the wheel itself.

There are plenty of dealers or resellers who will tell you that all you need to do is swap freehub bodies but this is not always the case. I strongly suggest you contact the manufacturer and get specific instructions on what is and isn't possible.
Bob, I'm sure you're right about all the problems that can occur in trying to upgrade a hub from 10s to 11s. With Vuelta selling the kit not just as a replacement 11s for 11s, but as a route to upgrade 10s to 11s, I would be more confident that all would go well. My experience with the Bitex type was totally problem-free. The 11s body doesn't affect OLD in any way. The wider body still sits entirely inside the 130 mm OLD. The chain is a little close to the stay, but it doesn't foul it. And I suppose the chain line is off a little, too, unless Bitex engineered it to overlap the spokes a smidgen on the left to balance the extra extension on the right. I dunno about that. In any case the chain line issue isn't causing a problem.
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Old 06-02-15, 09:54 PM   #9
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I've certainly McGivered hubs (among other things) to make them work over the years but it's not the best long term solution and not one that works in every circumstance for everyone. In reality there are lots of workarounds and then there's what's right. I prefer the later.

If, as you say, a brand has managed to make this work and stay in spec that's a bit of luck for the end user. Chances are they managed this because they hadn't maxed out the RCF dimension on the 8/9/10 design and so had a little wiggle room when converting to 10/11.

I'm assuming you're talking about the Bitex RAR12? If you look at the hub drawings you can see that the changes they made to the hub shell are pretty much in line with what many other vendors did as well to adapt the existing 10spd designs to accommodate 11spd and still be within Shimano spec. The two biggies in terms of these specs are chainline and the distance between the face of the lockring and the end of the sidecap. Shimano is very specific about this dimension.

To keep this dimension pretty much everyone (including Shimano) added a smidge to the OLD; It's really much closer to 131mm as a standard now. In terms of getting the wheel in and out of the frame I doubt anyone would notice.

I'm just waiting to find out that we're all going 135OLD. That will be a giant kick in the teeth but it feels inevitable.
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