JetBadger

If you are averaging 160 bpm, at age 60, you are likely working very hard to get up that hill. You may benefit from having an easier gear, but that is hard to say.

While I agree with other people here that say your power and not your gear determines your speed, that does not mean that you cannot generate more power with similar effort with an easier gear, causing you to go faster.

Those that gave a quick "No", I would challenge them to climb a steep hill in their hardest gear, then go back and do the same hill in their optimal gear of their choice. Most will climb the hill faster using their optimal gear of their choice, which is likely much easier of a gear then their hardest gear.

It is hard to say whether or not you will get up the hill quicker with an easier gear, but I would not say it is a definitive no.

rpenmanparker 

I think the difference in the gears would be felt more in the legs than in the CV system during a hill climb. Lower gears allow the rider to turn cranks against an easier load while having to pedal more rapidly to match the speed realized with a higher gear. It is about force vs. power. If you can't exert the necessary force to turn the cranks in a high gear, you can't climb the hill. That is certainly true. Lower gears put the task into a force range that one is able to exert. But that is a fairly wide range. So within that range the simplistic answers given by myself and several others are essentially correct. The differences in speed which can be achieved by changing gears over the range of cranking forces that are easily within the cyclist's capability are very small.

asgelle

I'm only 58 so this might not apply, but climbing at 160 bpm is a fairly easy effort for me. Hard would be 180 and very hard would be above 185. You can't generalize heart rate from one person to another.

chasm54

I'd say it is close to a definitive no. The lower gear, higher cadence route is likely to drive the hr even higher, so the most likely result is that the op would settle into a slightly more sustainable (aka slower) pace.

NTTAWWT

rpenmanparker 

That is true when cruising. I'm not so sure about climbing. We aren't talking about fast cadences here but rather fast ENOUGH to make getting up the hill comfortably possible.

smarkinson

If you're riding 4.8mph up an 8% hill for 0.8 miles then, as others have said, it doesn't matter what gear you are in you will use the same amount of power.

Using a smaller gear will reduce the amount of force (force or torque is different from power) you need to apply with each pedal stroke but you will have to increase your cadence to maintain the same speed and use the same amount of power over the climb. If you reduce the force and keep the same cadence then you will just go slower.

For example:
If we take your 4.8mph up the 8% hill and you are in the 30x25 gear then you are pedaling at 50.5rpm. If you put a cassette with a biggest sprocket of 28 teeth on the back then you could climb that hill at the same speed and overall power at 56.5rpm. Each stroke will require about 13% less force (so that will feel easier) but you need to do 13% more strokes every minute (which will feel harder).

As 12strings said, while in theory your power numbers stay the same there becomes a point at which pedaling requires so much force that it becomes difficult (if not impossible) for a human to output the necessary force. For climbing a cadence of 60-80 rpm is good although lately even higher cadences (90rpm) have become popular.

Personally, I'd say mashing up the hill at 50.5rpm is not an ideal situation and that you may find it more comfortable to put a bigger cassette on the back. Even 56.5rpm could still be considered to be mashing as for climbing you should probably be aiming for a cadence of 60-80rpm. In your 30x25 gear doing 60-80rpm would mean a speed of 5.7 to 7.6mph. In a 30x28 gear that would be a speed of 5.1 to 6.8mph.

There are only two ways to achieve those sorts of speeds. Either increase your power output or reduce the weight you are hauling up hill. And reducing the weight would probably be the easiest thing to do. If you reduce your overall weight by 5% (9.5lbs) then when it comes to climbing that weight loss will almost completely translate into a 5% speed improvement (especially up an 8% hill).

fietsbob

more a cycle-tourist , my triple cranks , third chainring is half the tooth count of the big one so 50, 52,3 & a 24 or 26t
39 or 40 for the middle one ..

Spin up the hill ? consider a MTB RD & casette..

Carbonfiberboy 

I admit, it's totally weird but cycling is really all about climbing hills. Everything about cycling says it should be restricted to roads or trails which are as flat as possible. One goes the fastest there with the least effort and initially at least, that's the most fun.

That would be fine if one only rode for transportation, like in Holland. However many of us ride for sport, and if you are riding for sport, you want to ride strong. The best way to get so you can ride strong is to ride hills. Hence yes, hills, see hill, ride up hill.

halfspeed

Yes, yes, yes. There's no magic, just more hurt.

CliffordK

Are you actually climbing the hills in the 30x25 gearing? Or some higher gear?

Do you feel like you would need an easier gear? Add gears if you need them. Take them away and get tighter gearing if you don't.

For me, it seems like the lower gears I have or select, the slower I go.

I hit quite a few of what I might call anaerobic hills. Maybe 1/4 mile long. And, if I can get up to the top in about 1 minute, I can do it under full power. Slow down to half the speed, and it takes twice as long on the hill, and it seems like it is more work getting to the top.

However, your hill of 8% over 0.8miles would kind of push the limits of what I could do at high speed. But, still, there may be some benefit of trying to get to the top as quick as possible. For me, that means in higher gears, not lower gears.

kingfishr

It's almost ridiculous to you should not go with a 12-27 or 12-29 cassette. What would be the penalty for switching cassettes? A gear in the mid-range that you might or might not use. But with a 12-29 you have the option to shift up or down whatever fits and feels best. No one here is sure if your limiting factor is max hr, cadence or power. The only question is if your derailleur has enough capacity. I rode up Sa Calobra two years in a row, first time with 39-29 and this year with 28-29. My average cadence on the climb in 2014 was 60, avg hr was 158, my average cadence in 2015 was 84, and avg hr 165, and I was 8:10 faster, but it did require more effort 232W vs 167W, but my ftp was about the same both years.
Switching a cassette takes 2 minutes, I have four and change when the terrain requires...

rpenmanparker 

Except when there are no hills. Yes Virginia, there is a Flatland.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, that's sad. Fortunately for the OP, he doesn't live there.

A rather simple change for the OP's gearing would be to use a 26T granny ring. That, combined with a 27T large cog might be a good setup for the OP. Lower gearing/higher cadence makes some people faster because higher cadence can result in higher power. That's more common among the more talented/experienced riders. Be that as it may, a higher climbing cadence imparts increased endurance. That's the main effect. It may not be noticeable on one 15 minute hill, but it certainly is on long or multiple climbs. For me, a 78 cadence is the lower limit for climbing strong all day.

JetBadger

Haha, yes I understand that max heart rate is different from person to person, and that perceived effort at different percentages of max heart rate is different from person to person.

That said, a max HR of ~185-190 for a 58 year old would be considered quite high. I did make a generalization for the OP, but I simply used the info he presented (avg HR over the climb and age).

---
Another assumption I am making is that getting up the hill is quite difficult for the OP. An average speed of less then 5mph is really slow. Based on my experience, when I face a hill that is long and steep enough to drop my speed to that level, I am mashing and wishing I had an easier gear. My legs are tiring quickly when climbing at that speed and my heart rate is usually skyrocketing above threshold, even though my cadence is low.

wiley2770

JetBadger, actually it's not real difficult. I've been concerned more with vapor-locking due to excess heart rate. After reading these posts I'm going to go hit that hill with more muscle and see what happens. I'm probably just over cautious.

I really appreciate all the input. It is very informative. The data I've quoted is pretty much an average climb up that hill. I've done that hill almost every time I come back home. The real difficult efforts are usually after 40 miles of riding. I ride a loop around here that entails 3 decent climbs and a couple of smaller ones totaling about 2,000' over 17 miles. Sometimes I'll ride them twice in the same outing.

To be totally honest, I just don't like being passed going up that hill. That's why I want to go faster.

DaveLeeNC

If the concern is just getting passed then leaving a trail of carpet tacks behind you will almost certainly fix that :-) From what I understand in the very early days of the Tour de France a strategy something like this was actually used!

dave

wiley2770

Sounds like something worth trying.

Agreed. Hills add spice.

Thanks again everyone.

Carbonfiberboy 

Don't forget to change chains. You can store chain/cassette sets together.

kingfishr

I've heard the theory, but in 15 years I still haven't worn out a cassette, but I'm only riding 8-10,000km per year. I do wipe down my chain and cassette after every ride, and replace my chain as soon as it shows measurable wear. Changing chains would more less kill the simplicity of switching cassettes when the terrain requires. I do avoid riding in bad weather which might also be a factor.

rpenmanparker 

Funny. I love spice and hate hills. I don't like climbing up them, and I don't like going down them. Lose-lose.

Carbonfiberboy 

No, I mean when one changes cassette sizes one should change to a chain length compatible with that cassette. I don't think changing to a previously used chain is a big deal if one uses quicklinks.

I ride in all weather except icy. I've worn out many cassettes and chainrings even though I also change chains when they start to wear.

"Fred"

It depends, we all have a cadence range that works best for us and we all have different power to weight ratio. If you are unable to spin fast enough in your lowest gear then yes a lower gear COULD help, if your cardio can handle it. Hope this helps.

motorthings

How did this statement avoid even the smallest smattering of mirth? Have you all lost your minds?

rpenmanparker 

We are a respectful group of folks.

Maelochs

If the guy wants to ride with .... modified equipment, that's his/her business ....

I noticed it, but wasn't sure that I wanted to be the first to mention it, and since everyone else seemed fine with it ... I didn't want to seem narrow-minded.

Besides, cycling gear is nearly unisex anyway ... maybe too fine a line on which to balance, once the slinging got started ...