indygreg

But I think a few people do eat at McD's last time I checked.

Actually, I agree with you in this post. I understand that there has to be innovation and right now the OEM's are paying the price for that. I understand that if everything went like BD.com we would not see new technology, new materials, etc and that would be very sad. I think there will always be a premium paid for companies that are pushing the envelope. I just think that things are going to change over the next 10 years - especially in the mid range bike market ($1000 - $3000). To be fair the frames from the OEMs in this range are largely not that unique or specialized (not the brand).

As far as PCs - they still are sold by brand big time, at least in my world (I work in IT). Shops are IBM or HP or Dell, etc. Home users are less loyal, but I still think brand name is a factor in their decision.

BikeWise1

I can see that, but it's like 3 brands that are very similar in most respects.

There's a local PC shop that will use higher quality components and a nice case and build you a better, more durable computer than you can buy at Best Buy, etc. It's not loaded with a bunch of useless bloat-ware, and, surprisingly, doesn't cost much more than the big brands, but people like to shop online, and you can't get what he does there. He wants to talk to you and find out your intended use, and how long before you want to upgrade, etc. Of course, he doesn't have all that hardware hanging on the wall, and you can't just go in and walk out with a new computer. And he's happy to build with whatever parts you find cheaper elsewhere, but he won't warranty them. Maybe that's where bikes are headed, but after some here have been through a dozen "bargain" bikes, I'll probably still be enjoying my Waterfords.

I'd rather take leftovers to work everyday to save up enough to enjoy a truly beautiful, well prepared and presented meal in a locally owned restaurant once a month than eat McD's everyday...YMMV....

indygreg

Good points again. I will differ on the PC thing as anything I get (and on my own dime I buy Dell or HP for my home) I format and rebuild the second I get it. Then I reload at least every 6 months. As such, I do not care about what comes on a machine or to have a guy listen to my needs. I am not a typical user and I understand that. Just as you are not a typical consumer of bikes if looking at the very big picture.

As far as local resaurant . . . that is just becoming very very hard to find. I think Oxford is like Bloomington, IN (both college towns) with a lot of local options. Living now in clonesville, IN it is very rare for a local joint to make it.

ME.Alex

"$1500 gets you a Zonal bike with a record drivetrain, brakes, and shifters, along with a wheelset that is 300g lighter than Ultegra/Open Pro. how? volume, apparently."

Considering I paid 1700 total with shipping and duties for my Habanero/Veloce combo which I had to put together myself, that's a good deal.

BikeWise1

Sadly, fewer and fewer. Gawd, how people love chains. "Sameness sold here". Goodbye local flavor...

I've literally been to all 50 states and it's gotten so bad that at every interchange, it's the same old thing...nothing but the local topography to set towns apart...

urban.one

In terms of the PC analogy... most customers dont need the extra service and the better this and better that. Computers are so cheap these days your better off spending less and upgrading sooner. The days are gone that youd spend $2,000 on a pc and then upgrade a hard drive and memory in a couple of years and add on some other toys. The PC arguement is different in many ways from the BD arguement. But look at how many computer shops have died in the past 10 to 15 years. The ones that have survived have found niche target markets. The ones in my are that I can think of seem to focus on markets such as gamers and techy do-it-yourself geeks. For the average consumer, whether a student or family needing a computer for the net, their better off going with Dell or Bestbuy. People are a lot more computer savvy these days than they were 10 or 15 years ago and dont need their hands held thru the whole purchase and after-purchase process. Again, thats why a lot of shops have died.

As for BD, smart bike shops will adapt and will survive. Its pretty clear that the current business model for most shops is inefficient and is evidenced by the number of LBSes going under. It sucks to lose LBS; one closed in my neighbourhood recently that was open for 70 or 80 years. But they couldnt adapt to changing times.

Money talks and people will shop where they want to. I think its great that the bike business is being shaken up by online parts retailers and shops like BD. Everyone bashes BD for poor service, no warranty, no after purchase support, etc. If you dont like it, then dont spend your money with them. If most people feel its worth the extra dollars to buy from a LBS then the LBS will survive and BD will go out of business.

BD is finally giving consumers a choice. Some people dont care about brand name bikes and dont need the support of a bike shop. I dont find their advertising deceptive. I can think most people understand how MSRP is used in marketing. You see it everywhere. And who cares about using old school names. If they were selling bikes like TERK, or SPECIALZ, then that would be a different story.

And another post mentioned Waterford.... I doubt anyone buying from BD would even consider a Waterford.

Prince9931

Wow ............ just wow .....

alanbikehouston

Now, BikesDirect shills can spout the BikesDirect double-talk, bait and switch cr@p in their sleep...yeah, send us a deposit, someday we send you a bike, then you send the bike back to get some of your money back...yeah, that's exactly how America's best bike shops do business, right?.

Another bike components dealer has an interesting idea: you send us the money, and we send you the complete 2007 Campagnolo Record group. AND, because that OTHER dealer is in fact a legit operation, the Campagnolo warranty will be fully backed by both the retailer and by Campagnolo.

But, THAT sort of business model is far too "direct" for anyone with BikesDirect to comprehend.

I've noticed a new tactic by BikesDirect when I post. Instead of responding with FACTS about their products, or facts about their service, or facts about their warranties, their shills respond ONLY with personal attacks and name-calling. That is the sort of people who run BikesDirect and the "class" of people who shill for them here at "Bike Forums".

So, I expect that if this post gets any response from the "BikesDirect" bunch, it will be more personal attacks...BikesDirect won't ever change.

Grasschopper

Ok dude...you MUST be a BD shill. You complain about there being 5 threads on the front page at one time and start a thread that you know will stay up there for days....now that that thread has fallen you dig up a thread that no one has posted on for 9 days...must be several pages down...and bring it back to the top.

You know you just sold another bike for them right? Your a tool.

urban.one

Whats your gripe with BD? Did you or a family member get ripped off? Did you buy a bike and it fell apart?

indygreg

YES . . . I love ABH rants. Clearly we are the ones who will never change. Your posts show a great deal of variety.

Your quote "send us a deposit, someday we send you a bike, then you send the bike back to get some of your money back...yeah, that's exactly how America's best bike shops do business, right?."

See, unlike the communists that you normally rant about, we are capitolists. Doing things differently is part of it. If their approach does not work they will not stay in business, right. This is a fact, and no number of shills (which I stunned you think we all actually are) will change that. If you are right they will go away.

GaryA

My dealing with BD has gone great, but I realize everyone may not have the same luck. I bought the Motobecane Sprint last Friday for $850, Motobecane MSRP is $2095 (seemed like an ok deal) According to UPS online tracking it will be at my house today before I am. This is acceptable to me.

indygreg

oh why did you have to mention the MSRP? This thread just got about 4 pages longer.

Second Mouse

+1. Classic!!

Eatadonut

Apparently, now one of the big problems with BD is their shipping practices

ABH is the biking equivalent of people who complain about illegals stealing their jobs.

GaryA

My "bad" Im still kinda new here.

JeffS

Your thinking is backwards.

The parts are obviously worth MORE than $200. They wouldn't be offering you $200 if they were worth less.
It would have been easier from a PR standpoint to just sell the bike and be done with it (and is probably what they should have stayed with). Someone decided that they'd provide a service to the buyer, while at the same time, make a little extra money for their service and that somehow makes them shadier?

Everyone knows customers are stripping their bikes. Buyers don't feel guilty for doing it - why should BD feel guilty for acknowledging that it's happening?


[obligitory disclaimer] - I am not associated with BD in any way, nor have I ever purchased anything from them.

indygreg

I know a lot of people here think Mike (owner of BD.com) is a sleezy sales guy and do not take him at his word. I take him at his word. He said this entire buy back is simply a way to do market research. It makes sense. There is a thought that people buy his bikes as the frames are essentially free when you price out what you get . . . and that buyers are tossing the frames to get the stuff that comes on it. This is what some on forums say. He is trying to see if this is the case. He had a good thread about research and why he does some of the stuff he does (some of his best deals cannot be found on his main page if you do not go through a link from an ad, etc). At a very minimum he seems to care what customers want and is trying to learn.

The frame and fork COST him less than $200, he has be veyr clear about that. Alum frames (even good ones like this) cost him about $20-$40 to make in Tiawan. The fork is not very exensive. Now, does he think he can get $200 or more for these frames when he gets them back - maybe. Otherwise it is a clear loss, but as he says it is for research and he can sell the frames in store or on ebay as what they are (essentialy new but returned) for close to that.

Grasschopper

I notice ABH dropped that gernade in here and vanished.

JeffS

I understand, but was thinking that maybe the wheels/tires/headset put it over the top -- not that I doubt the market research option either.

indygreg

It is like clockwork . . . every few days he comes in and lights a fire and then leaves before 911 is even called.

I am honestly starting to think that it is all a joke - just someone who likes being an internet troll. Probably someone here that posts normally and is a decent guy . . . but has this dark alter ego that he likes to bust out every now and again. Lets face it - ABH is famous here.

WheresWaldo

Look nine days since the last post and ABH resurrects this. I wonder why the A$$Hat didn't post in the Masi thread. And after calling all the BD customers names, he then wonders why he is attacked. Get a life, everyone on this thread should either report his posts as being disruptive, calling him the troll that he is or just put him on ignore and you will not see any of his posts again (unless quoted). He is simply not interested in educating anyone just being disruptive. I say ban his sorry A$$ and let's go eat some pie!


Hmmm, PIE!
Please note that I was courteous enough for all you non-Americans to post this recipe with metric measurements.


INGREDIENTS

* 284 g pie shell
* 1380 g apple - peeled, cored and sliced
* 50 g white sugar
* 7 g ground cinnamon
* 2 g ground nutmeg

DIRECTIONS

1. Preheat oven to 75 degrees C (350 degrees F).
2. Place sliced apples in a large pot. Sprinkle with sugar, cinnamon, and nutmeg. Mix well and cook over low heat, stirring frequently, until apples are tender but not mushy.
3. Pour apple mixture into pastry-lined pie pan. Cover with second pastry shell. Seal edges and cut steam vents in top.
4. Bake in preheated oven for 30 to 40 minutes, until crust is golden brown.

indygreg

how do you ignore on this forum? I have seen that option on other board software, but I do not see it here.

urban.one

Go to your "User Control Panel". Click on it and its one of the last options on the left hand side.

PatrickVA

If we all ignored him and he went away, who would shill for BD? Who would resurect week-dead BD posts, or add new BD posts to talk about how many BD posts are active? Clearly ABH=BD.