A not-so-happy Cervelo S5 owner
02-19-12, 04:20 PM
#101
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02-19-12, 04:26 PM
#102
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Ahm...I take it from your response you haven't actually watched the accompanying video?
He bought the bike online and "had it delivered". Then he had to go to three local shops to gather opinions on the quality of the bike and write to Cervelo himself...
I bought from an LBS...all I had to do was drop it off and let them deal with the manufacturer...
So as I said... THIS IS A GOOD AD FOR BUYING FROM AN LBS.
Nuff said.
He bought the bike online and "had it delivered". Then he had to go to three local shops to gather opinions on the quality of the bike and write to Cervelo himself...
I bought from an LBS...all I had to do was drop it off and let them deal with the manufacturer...
So as I said... THIS IS A GOOD AD FOR BUYING FROM AN LBS.
Nuff said.
Poor guy seems to be really caught behind the 8-ball. I think the real question is whether or not this is a genuine frame.
Not necessarily. LBSs often don't want to be bothered with warranty service.
I had an LBS (biggest in Tennessee) offer to warrant a badly corroded 15-day old Specialized headset . . . if I would pay him $60 labor to replace it. I had removed it from the bike -- that's how I found the problem -- and he demanded to be paid to replace the part. ($60 for about ten minutes work!) Otherwise, no warranty. Gak!
Unlike vehicle manufacturers -- who are paid for doing warranty work by the manufacturers -- LBSs are paid for warranty work by the bike owners. This not only guts the value of the warranty, but it makes things awkward when the warranty replacement offers no promise of payment for the shop.
The guy in the video clearly wasn't about to pay an LBS to dismantle and reassemble the bike in order to warranty the frame. It was already stripped. In that case, there's nothing in it (but wasted time and phone calls) for an LBS to warrant the frameset. They've got better things to do with their time and money. They are in it to make a living. If a warranty replacement doesn't result in $$$ from the customer for the labor involved, a lot of LBSs just aren't interested. Why would they go to any trouble when there's no revenue in it for them?
I had an LBS (biggest in Tennessee) offer to warrant a badly corroded 15-day old Specialized headset . . . if I would pay him $60 labor to replace it. I had removed it from the bike -- that's how I found the problem -- and he demanded to be paid to replace the part. ($60 for about ten minutes work!) Otherwise, no warranty. Gak!
Unlike vehicle manufacturers -- who are paid for doing warranty work by the manufacturers -- LBSs are paid for warranty work by the bike owners. This not only guts the value of the warranty, but it makes things awkward when the warranty replacement offers no promise of payment for the shop.
The guy in the video clearly wasn't about to pay an LBS to dismantle and reassemble the bike in order to warranty the frame. It was already stripped. In that case, there's nothing in it (but wasted time and phone calls) for an LBS to warrant the frameset. They've got better things to do with their time and money. They are in it to make a living. If a warranty replacement doesn't result in $$$ from the customer for the labor involved, a lot of LBSs just aren't interested. Why would they go to any trouble when there's no revenue in it for them?
It seems like the value added by an LBS shrinks more and more every year. There's only two things I use an LBS for anymore:
1) Emergency part/supply purchases.
2) Chase and face.
Everything else I've learned to do myself, including wheelbuilding; if for no other reason every time I inquire about service I'm told "X days" or "sometime next week". I've been told that and then driven to the same LBS 10 minutes later to see several service employees behind service counter doing absolutely nothing. That was with the one bike I have purchased at an LBS.
I know this thread wasn't about LBS experiences but it's clear to me that the bicycle industry is really hurting and having serious trouble adapting to modern sales and marketing. Lots of brick and mortar stores are going away for various reasons.
02-19-12, 04:29 PM
#103
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Would you really consider K-Mart an LBS in Australia**********? I can't believe that one. Let's get real here.
I'm talking about a multi-location shop that got that way, originally, by offering mom-and-pop level customer service and grew from there. Of course, they didn't grow really big until they realized that the money was in kids' bikes and family hybrid / comfort bikes. Originally, they were the bike racer's / bike enthusiast's shop. Now, they definitely sell more mountain bikes than road bikes and more comfort bikes than anything else. But they are considered to be quite reputable among bike shops. Like all LBSs, they've got to make a living.
And the warranty model for bicycle manufacturers forces them to extract money from the customer for warranty service. They're not operating a charity.
I'm talking about a multi-location shop that got that way, originally, by offering mom-and-pop level customer service and grew from there. Of course, they didn't grow really big until they realized that the money was in kids' bikes and family hybrid / comfort bikes. Originally, they were the bike racer's / bike enthusiast's shop. Now, they definitely sell more mountain bikes than road bikes and more comfort bikes than anything else. But they are considered to be quite reputable among bike shops. Like all LBSs, they've got to make a living.
And the warranty model for bicycle manufacturers forces them to extract money from the customer for warranty service. They're not operating a charity.
My LBS didn't charge me to re-build the bike either - but I realise this may be the exception more than the rule.
I think my point about size can be distilled to: the bigger the shop the poorer the service. Would that be too much of a generalisation?
02-19-12, 04:45 PM
#104
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My guess is that the DEALER bought it on-line because they couldn't get delivery from Cervelo in time to make the sale. Thye resold it because they had to since they already had their money tied up in it. They probably never even contacted Cervelo because they knew they would be found out.
As to the frame itself my guess is that is came from a temp mold and was removed before it had cooled. The would explain the imperfections and the wavyness.
I've seen how a factory paints frames and there is no way the masking would be that crappy and be allowed out the door. It also seems like they painted it with the cable guide and other frame fixtures in place and just masked them. Again, no real frame factory or assembly factory would do this for all the obvious reasons.
This frame screams fake.
02-19-12, 05:06 PM
#105
Peloton Shelter Dog
Incorrect. If you are the original owner they will warranty it.
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02-19-12, 05:08 PM
#106
Peloton Shelter Dog
Yeah but Treks break too much.
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02-19-12, 05:08 PM
#107
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Wow, the workmanship on that frame is really awful. He sounded like a nitpicking whiner initially, but in seeing the pictures, the guy is absolutely right to be pissed. That's a megabuck frame and it looks really awful. Are Cervelos really this terrible?
02-19-12, 05:08 PM
#108
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This makes sense.
My guess is that the DEALER bought it on-line because they couldn't get delivery from Cervelo in time to make the sale. Thye resold it because they had to since they already had their money tied up in it. They probably never even contacted Cervelo because they knew they would be found out.
As to the frame itself my guess is that is came from a temp mold and was removed before it had cooled. The would explain the imperfections and the wavyness.
I've seen how a factory paints frames and there is no way the masking would be that crappy and be allowed out the door. It also seems like they painted it with the cable guide and other frame fixtures in place and just masked them. Again, no real frame factory or assembly factory would do this for all the obvious reasons.
This frame screams fake.
My guess is that the DEALER bought it on-line because they couldn't get delivery from Cervelo in time to make the sale. Thye resold it because they had to since they already had their money tied up in it. They probably never even contacted Cervelo because they knew they would be found out.
As to the frame itself my guess is that is came from a temp mold and was removed before it had cooled. The would explain the imperfections and the wavyness.
I've seen how a factory paints frames and there is no way the masking would be that crappy and be allowed out the door. It also seems like they painted it with the cable guide and other frame fixtures in place and just masked them. Again, no real frame factory or assembly factory would do this for all the obvious reasons.
This frame screams fake.
02-19-12, 05:20 PM
#109
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Wow. I thought this was going to be someone just ranting when the video started but that's definitely legit. I would snap if I received a frame that looked like that. Good to hear he got some result out of that mess.
Really? I have several with many many miles on them as do some friends. Not one has ever had an issue and not one of them ever came looking like that s5 did.
Really? I have several with many many miles on them as do some friends. Not one has ever had an issue and not one of them ever came looking like that s5 did.
02-19-12, 07:20 PM
#110
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This makes sense.
My guess is that the DEALER bought it on-line because they couldn't get delivery from Cervelo in time to make the sale. Thye resold it because they had to since they already had their money tied up in it. They probably never even contacted Cervelo because they knew they would be found out.
As to the frame itself my guess is that is came from a temp mold and was removed before it had cooled. The would explain the imperfections and the wavyness.
I've seen how a factory paints frames and there is no way the masking would be that crappy and be allowed out the door. It also seems like they painted it with the cable guide and other frame fixtures in place and just masked them. Again, no real frame factory or assembly factory would do this for all the obvious reasons.
This frame screams fake.
My guess is that the DEALER bought it on-line because they couldn't get delivery from Cervelo in time to make the sale. Thye resold it because they had to since they already had their money tied up in it. They probably never even contacted Cervelo because they knew they would be found out.
As to the frame itself my guess is that is came from a temp mold and was removed before it had cooled. The would explain the imperfections and the wavyness.
I've seen how a factory paints frames and there is no way the masking would be that crappy and be allowed out the door. It also seems like they painted it with the cable guide and other frame fixtures in place and just masked them. Again, no real frame factory or assembly factory would do this for all the obvious reasons.
This frame screams fake.
I say we try to out the bike store that sold it to him.....
02-19-12, 07:21 PM
#111
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I admittedly don't know too much about carbon frames, having never owned or ridden one. However, I do know a little bit about customer service and just going on the info as presented I think I'd side with this guy.
Yes, the video testimonial is a bit clumsy but to me that makes it more obvious he's a regular guy who's genuinely unhappy and a bit frustrated. If you're buying a bike in the $3000.00 price range you have a legitimate expectation that it should be very near perfect.
A company priding itself on in very high quality products like this should be making sure every customer is nothing less than thrilled. Nobody NEEDS to buy a bike costing that much. The folks who do have certain expectations and Cervelo needs to be sure those expectations are fulfilled.
Unless the guy is making some outrageously false claims of defect the first answer from the company (or the dealer or both, I realize there's questions there) in a situation like this should always be "Yes sir, we'll send a new frame/refund right away!"
Yes, the video testimonial is a bit clumsy but to me that makes it more obvious he's a regular guy who's genuinely unhappy and a bit frustrated. If you're buying a bike in the $3000.00 price range you have a legitimate expectation that it should be very near perfect.
A company priding itself on in very high quality products like this should be making sure every customer is nothing less than thrilled. Nobody NEEDS to buy a bike costing that much. The folks who do have certain expectations and Cervelo needs to be sure those expectations are fulfilled.
Unless the guy is making some outrageously false claims of defect the first answer from the company (or the dealer or both, I realize there's questions there) in a situation like this should always be "Yes sir, we'll send a new frame/refund right away!"
02-19-12, 07:44 PM
#112
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My brain hurts and I only watched about a min. that guys is a worse speaker then Joe Biden
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02-19-12, 08:14 PM
#113
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I admittedly don't know too much about carbon frames, having never owned or ridden one. However, I do know a little bit about customer service and just going on the info as presented I think I'd side with this guy.
Yes, the video testimonial is a bit clumsy but to me that makes it more obvious he's a regular guy who's genuinely unhappy and a bit frustrated. If you're buying a bike in the $3000.00 price range you have a legitimate expectation that it should be very near perfect.
A company priding itself on in very high quality products like this should be making sure every customer is nothing less than thrilled. Nobody NEEDS to buy a bike costing that much. The folks who do have certain expectations and Cervelo needs to be sure those expectations are fulfilled.
Unless the guy is making some outrageously false claims of defect the first answer from the company (or the dealer or both, I realize there's questions there) in a situation like this should always be "Yes sir, we'll send a new frame/refund right away!"
Yes, the video testimonial is a bit clumsy but to me that makes it more obvious he's a regular guy who's genuinely unhappy and a bit frustrated. If you're buying a bike in the $3000.00 price range you have a legitimate expectation that it should be very near perfect.
A company priding itself on in very high quality products like this should be making sure every customer is nothing less than thrilled. Nobody NEEDS to buy a bike costing that much. The folks who do have certain expectations and Cervelo needs to be sure those expectations are fulfilled.
Unless the guy is making some outrageously false claims of defect the first answer from the company (or the dealer or both, I realize there's questions there) in a situation like this should always be "Yes sir, we'll send a new frame/refund right away!"
02-19-12, 08:21 PM
#114
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What does that mean? You could insert any product where the "bike" is and have the same meaning.
Maybe he NEEDS it to get a PB...maybe he NEEDS it to take the next step in his cycling...maybe he NEEDS it to keep up with the Jones'...maybe he NEEDS it to complete a set of Cervelos he's been dreaming about...
I guess you mean that no-one needs to spend $3k on a frame when you can get the same utility from a $15 second hand 1970s frame on eBay. Then...I guess you're right.
Maybe he NEEDS it to get a PB...maybe he NEEDS it to take the next step in his cycling...maybe he NEEDS it to keep up with the Jones'...maybe he NEEDS it to complete a set of Cervelos he's been dreaming about...
I guess you mean that no-one needs to spend $3k on a frame when you can get the same utility from a $15 second hand 1970s frame on eBay. Then...I guess you're right.
02-19-12, 08:35 PM
#115
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Agreed, but if they suspect (or know) that it's not a legitimate frame then they should have responded with that reason to the customer instead of telling him that the flaws are only cosmetic and nothing to worry about. And if, as stated, the OP purchased the frame through a licensed Cervelo dealer then it would seem that Cervelo would have the motivation and means to investigate their dealer and stop future sales of counterfeit frames.
02-19-12, 08:41 PM
#116
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What does that mean? You could insert any product where the "bike" is and have the same meaning.
Maybe he NEEDS it to get a PB...maybe he NEEDS it to take the next step in his cycling...maybe he NEEDS it to keep up with the Jones'...maybe he NEEDS it to complete a set of Cervelos he's been dreaming about...
I guess you mean that no-one needs to spend $3k on a frame when you can get the same utility from a $15 second hand 1970s frame on eBay. Then...I guess you're right.
Maybe he NEEDS it to get a PB...maybe he NEEDS it to take the next step in his cycling...maybe he NEEDS it to keep up with the Jones'...maybe he NEEDS it to complete a set of Cervelos he's been dreaming about...
I guess you mean that no-one needs to spend $3k on a frame when you can get the same utility from a $15 second hand 1970s frame on eBay. Then...I guess you're right.
...If you're buying a bike in the $3000.00 price range you have a legitimate expectation that it should be very near perfect.
A company priding itself on in very high quality products like this should be making sure every customer is nothing less than thrilled. Nobody NEEDS to buy a bike costing that much. The folks who do have certain expectations and Cervelo needs to be sure those expectations are fulfilled. ..."
A company priding itself on in very high quality products like this should be making sure every customer is nothing less than thrilled. Nobody NEEDS to buy a bike costing that much. The folks who do have certain expectations and Cervelo needs to be sure those expectations are fulfilled. ..."
02-19-12, 08:42 PM
#117
Peloton Shelter Dog
But that doesn't matter so much if Trek stands behind them, and they do. That's fine.
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02-19-12, 08:48 PM
#118
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I dunno man...I had to submit a couple Cervelo warranty claims for the shop...I had RA's within 30 mins. There are a few S5's in the shop and none look like that.
02-19-12, 08:59 PM
#120
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What gets me is that Cervelo either didn't think that it was a fake and didn't care at all about all the non-structural flaws or didn't care if it was a fake.
02-19-12, 09:03 PM
#121
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Unhappy frame buyer, "Yeah, it looks bad. Real bad."
Cervelo person on the phone, "You need to talk with the dealer that you bought it from, not us directly." (which is SOP for warranty claims).
Or maybe not. We have no way of knowing.
02-19-12, 10:50 PM
#122
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Agreed! Pinarello a heavily copied brand as well, has a warning on the front page of their website about all the fake frames out there and announcing that buyers beware.
02-19-12, 11:04 PM
#123
Peloton Shelter Dog
Nobody cares about friggin bicycles anyway.
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02-19-12, 11:09 PM
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02-19-12, 11:12 PM
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I would imagine ALL the major bike makers, have the same kind of info on their sites as well? Cant imagine folks not trying to make knockoffs of:Cannondale/Colnago/Felt etc?
I would think w/ the price of the Cannondale Supersix's alone, would probably bring out alot of knockoffs?