rpenmanparker 

Sure, but who knew? In general with just a few exceptions bikes are not long term investments that appreciate or even hold value. Depreciation is fairly rapid unless there is something incredibly unique about the builder (Eisentraut, Baum). Often this can't be predicted in advance. Spending more upfront in the hope or plan for vintage status is not a winning bet IMO. Certainly I would not spend more than I am comfortable with thinking I will get it back later.

rpenmanparker 

They don't talk about it, but it is an advanced, heat treated steel alloy like CrMO AFAIK. The bikes are quite light (that means good steel) for the price. I think he used to use Easton tubes or a mixed tube set, but honestly I can't remember. Some time back they stopped talking about the steel since pretty much know it is all pretty good. You could call them or maybe someone else knows here. You could start a separate thread to ask that question.

I had the Breakaway for several years and loved it. Best riding, most comfortably bike I ever owned. Frame even with the clamps to hold the two pieces together was around 3.5 lb. The Logic has to be just as good IMO.

EDIT: Since the frames are made in Asia now, perhaps they are at least partly Tange. Tange makes some very advance tubes similar to Reynolds and Columbus.

Lazyass

A '92 Waterford frame will sell for more than my entire bike and probably sell for more than what it cost in '92 depending on the condition. If it's NOS it will most certainly sell for more than what it cost 22 years ago.

chaadster

What are you guys talking about?! It's Ritchey Logic tubing, and it's famous among the cognoscenti! Ritchey designed his own tube sets long ago, back in the mid-'80s IIRC, and was an integral step, if not a critical part, of the development of high-end steel. Tange used to make the tubing for Ritchey, which featured, yes, lightweight thanks to thin walls and short butts, and still does AFAIK. They're definitely great tube sets, and should be regarded just as Reynolds, Columbus, Dedacciai, etc... and Tange, obviously.

I guess I could cut some slack on the grounds that it has been more prominent in the MTB world than road circles, but still...

rpenmanparker 

Exactly. That is what I was getting at. Yes it is famous, but still mysterious, because it is hard to find out anything about the steel composition. Truth is, who cares? The reputation speaks for itself. It is just that folks who have been indoctrinated by Reynolds and Columbus to look for the established, recognized steel grades and not settle for "less", have a hard time when that information isn't available. As I said, very light and a great ride.

rpenmanparker 

Agreed! But you didn't answer my rhetorical question? "Who knew?" Hindsight is 20/20. And my point is that what the bike will be worth in 20 years doesn't make it ride any better today or tomorrow. When you have a limited budget, a bike that you can afford but which will depreciate is much more desirable than one you cannot afford but which will hold its value. That is just middle class economics, something I am not embarrassed to say I have a lot of experience with. Depreciating value doesn't make the quality of the ride depreciate.

Juan Foote

I would like to weigh in with a question since this thread seems to have attracted the Steeluminati. I have been looking into a budget steel build for a ride I like to participate in where being crashed into or outright stolen from me are within the realms of possibility.

I have had my eye on a Soma Smoothie. The price is less than half of most of the other semi custom steel frame makers. I have heard pretty good things about the bike from a utilitarian standpoint, if not so much about how good it looks which really isn't a concern. The only other bike I see anything near the price range, and still a road bike is the steel framed Motobecane.
The tubing is almost a non issue. Both are built in Taiwan, so far as I can tell. Is there any compelling reason to choose one of these over the other considering final build will come out within dollars?

StanSeven

That's what people kept telling me. I sold one a few months ago in good shape with nine speed DA, a more recent CF fork painted by Waterford, a Thomson seat post, etc., for $700. I tried eBay and CL with much higher prices and finally listed it for bo at CL.

rpenmanparker 

I don't know the Motobecane, but I would point out the Soma bikes are more like commuters or sport tourers with clearance for larger tires and provision for mounting racks and fenders. That is all fine if it is what you want. If not, you should look for something a little racier. The Ritchey we have been discussing above can be had built up from Adrenaline (www.adrenalinebikes.com) for a very reasonable price - any way you want it.

rpenmanparker 

Funny how that happens.

Juan Foote

This frameset, like many of the others, is priced more than I would like my complete build to. The Soma is about $500 with the fork. There just doesn't seem to be anything else near that price point aside from that Moto.

rpenmanparker 

The Ritchie framesets (with fork) are heavily discounted at Bike Wagon and other places, IIRC about $749. Adrenaline builds them with Apex for $1199, 105 for $1299 and Rival for $1399.

halfspeed

There's the Surly Pacer in that range, but I'd probably go with the Soma. Actually, for what you describe, I'd like for something used.

canam73

Just like to point out for people looking for an off the shelf steel frame that GVH often has a selection of steel frames including several of the models being talked about in this thread (Soma, Ritchey) and some that haven't yet been mentioned (KHS, Viner):

. . : : G V H : : B I K E S : : . .

Juan Foote

I would love to find something used that was modern enough to find parts for, in my size (58+) and didn't cost as much as what I am looking at new by the time it was rideable, in steel.

Montrose

Check your local Craigslist for Lemonds. Most of his bikes were made with very high quality steel tubing (Reynolds 853, and later True Temper OSX). You can regularly find them in my area for $400-700, and the components can be upgraded over time, if so desired. They are generally great value bikes on the used market, in my opinion.

rpenmanparker 

I agree. I would think that the later the model, the more likely you would be to get oversize tubing, which contributes to lighter weight along with the high strength steel. One factor cannot accomplish the modern level of weight reduction alone.

chaadster

There were closeouts awhile back on the very racy '12 vintage Breezer Venturi framesets, which I saw on eBay, for $500, and perhaps elsewhere. Adrenaline, where I had mine built up, list them at $699 for frameset (w/ headset), and $799 for the '14 which are the same aside from integrated seat post binder and different paint.

But yeah, a superb riding, responsive and precise frame with non-traditional geometry and some unique and modern features that really make it a standout within the steel category. I highly recommend taking a look if that's at all within range of your needs and price point.

rpenmanparker 

Good suggestion. And unless OP is holding a bunch of parts already, I'd be surprised if he could build up a $500 frame himself with new components as cheaply as Adrenaline will do a $700 one or maybe even a $900 one one for him.

chaadster

I had a very good experience with Adrenaline, but my Athena Carbon 11spd build was almost 2x the $1.7k Ultegra 10spd Venturi that Google shows Bikewagon offering. More than anything, it gets to your point that a la carte builds from nothing (i.e. no parts on hand) are usually pricier than complete bikes.

StanSeven

The one thing not mentioned so far is what you get paying for a custom built frame. A well built frame results after extensive fitting, either in person or through a dealer/fitter than knows the builder well. That's 2-3 hours and involves lots of measurements, things like flexibility testing, and watching the rider on a present bike. It also involves lots of dialogue on things like riding style, amount of comfort desired, how much stiffness you want in the bb and rear, whether you sprint much or not, seated or standing climbing, etc. Then all that info usually gets cranked into a model to produce a rough design for the owner to go through. Sometimes the buyer tries that out in a simulator. Then you get to pick the color and special effects.

This is difficult to get on a $700 frame. I imagine many low priced builders just put together a frame built to their standard geometry and you maybe get to choose a color. It's no more custom than buying something in stock from a LBS except for the paint choice. That may be ok but its far different than the top end custom shops.

Juan Foote

I agree Stan, but with the $6000 price tag that companies like Baum put on their steel frameset alone takes most of us out of that equation.

rpenmanparker 

I too agree but point out the likelihood that those features are not of particular importance to OP considering the budget constraints he has mentioned.