Machka 

Nope. That's how I have to ride. If my handlebars were lower than my saddle, I'd bring up my stomach contents all over my front wheel.

Machka 

Step 1: Get your saddle height right. The handlebar height is not that important. Your saddle height is very important.

As a starting point to get the right saddle height, find a bit of flat ground and ride for 5 or 10 minutes. Make sure you are sitting evenly on the bicycle. Coast and place your heel on the pedal. You should have a slight bend in the knee.

That's the starting point. If your area is really hilly, you may want to lower the saddle slightly from that point.


As for when I've stopped ... on most of my bicycles I cannot sit on the saddle and touch the ground with my feet. I have to come off the saddle to touch the ground.


Step 2: Get your fore-aft distances right ... that's how far forward or back your saddle is, and you can use the following measurement to find a starting point. (You might need an assistant for this). When you are sitting comfortably on your bicycle, put your right pedal in the 3:00 position. Dangle a plumb bob from the front of your knee (there is some debate about exactly which point on your knee is right) ... the plumb bob should intersect the spindle of your pedal.

Step 3: Double-check the height of your saddle ... sometimes moving the saddle forward or back can change the feel of the height.

Step 4: Now consider your handlebar height.

StanSeven

Yep, one size fits all rule doesn't apply at all. What's funny is I ride with about 4.5 inches drop. I used to ride with a little less but when I got fitted, it showed my bars were too high. My power is actually a little higher that way too.

Ice41000

Bike should fit YOU. If it works for you, do it.

OTOH, it is so "not pro", so...

seypat

Would the advent of the endurance geometry just be a move back to some of the geometries of the past? Looking at the photo comparison, if the endurance geometry is as you describe it's just a move back to a geometry like the one on Coppi's bike.

rpenmanparker 

IMO the notion that you should necessarily be able to touch the ground with your toes when sitting on the saddle is false. Some people can, some can't. It is just better to come forward off the saddle and put one foot flat on the ground when stopping than all that struggling to stay upright still perched on the saddle. Sitting on the saddle with one's toes reaching for the ground is cute and manly (I suppose that is what we are expected to believe.) but not very useful for any purpose that I can think of. When it is time to start up again, using the clipped in leg to lift yourself back up onto the saddle and push the pedals forward is a very effective way to get going, achieve some needed speed right away and establish your balance.

Homebrew01

Here's the definitive bike fitting info from Schwinn 1977:

Note the bend in the knee. Too high or low a seat can lead to knee & back pain. There's no "exact" formula, it takes a bit of experimenting for each person to find the right spot.



Reiterating what others have said: Get the saddle height first, then adjust the bars.

I usually bring a few wrenches with me on a ride when first setting up a new bike. Then you can stop & make little adjustments as you go.

Big Lebowski

Funny, that is kinda how I fit. Not much seatpost showing and the toptube is where I can straddle it, but not much more.

StanSeven

Fast forward four decades to today and Schwinn (actually Waterford) has a completely different perspective. A person on another site posted his position after being fitted at Waterford for 75th anniversary Paramount. It looks like at least five inches of drop from saddle to stem. The only thing that remains the same is the slightly bent knee.

Homebrew01

Saddle height has a fairly small range of "correctness" for most people.
Handle bar height relative to saddle is a lot more variable, depending on a person's flexibility, riding style, comfort etc .....

woodcraft

This sounds like you are adjusting saddle height in relation to touching the ground while seated.

This is not a good approach for a road bike- maybe OK for a comfort bike that is ridden short distances.

When the distances ridden go beyond being measured in blocks, wanting the security/convenience of being able to put a foot down while seated generally is overtaken by wanting an efficient riding position.

bt

frames now have sloping top tubes

Wilfred Laurier

IMO, the person in the picture should have his saddle slightly higher. I think that looks like a bit too much bend in the knee.
However, everyone is different and the best way to figure out the ideal saddle position is to experiment and change one thing at a time a tiny bit at a time.

Big Lebowski

Bikes have sloping top tubes? Really? I was referring to me and no one else. Here's my Surly Pacer.

bt

the dude abides.....

Lazyass

That's not too much bend in the knee. For some reason, it seems in the last 20 years or so saddle heights have got higher with more leg extension. And bars lower. And along with that has come more complaints about sore knees and necks, numb hands and saddles hurting.

Wilfred Laurier

The same complaints were around in the 70s during the 10 speed boom - ill fitting bikes come in all styles.

mrv 

Rule #45 - Slam the Stem: Velominati ? The Rules

There should be a cycling equivalent to Godwin's Law - how many posts before some moron brings up the Velominati Rules.
What'd call it? Coppi's Law? Antequil's Number? Armstrong's Constant?

ps: I don't actually slam my stem

ThermionicScott 

Agreed for the most part, but what could be "manly" about it? Nervously dangling one's toes at the ground while coasting to a stop, still in the saddle makes people look like newbs to me.

rpenmanparker 

The manly part like most things machismo was a joke. It is kind of a poseur thing though, to show how good your balance is by staying up on the saddle while holding up the bike on one tippy-toe.

caloso

If you wanted to show off your balance, you'd be trackstanding.

zandoval 

Yep... At greater than 60 my osteoarthritis keeps my bars so high I don't even use drop handle bars anymore. All praise the bull horns...

But when I see some young guy blaze past me with his rump high in the air and his nose down on that front tire it makes me smile. I remember the days when if I was down in the drops I really did not even need a seat. Power on yonguns... Seize the day...