Zenbiker

I just bought a new, honey coloured, Brooks B17 standard saddle from my lbs for $50 CAD with tax. I wasn't on sale still has to be shipped to me from Ontario(I live in Kamloops, B.C.). Does anyone want to explain to me why Harris Cyclery, Yellow Jersey, and many other internet shops are selling the same saddles for $70.00 USD (and up!) plus tax and shipping? That's almost twice as much when all is said and done. It seems as though these "trustworthy" shops are doing nothing more than taking people for a ride (no pun intended). Not only am I getting a better deal, but I'm getting a good serving of peace of mind and knowhow, all while I support my local economy. I have never ordered anything from the internet and I have no plans to in the near future.

supcom

I'd say that you got an extremely good deal. If all your LBSs products are priced as far below everyone else, you certainly have no reason to shop elsewhere.

Machka 

Why buy from the internet??

1. Because some of us don't have the luxury of an LBS that sells Brooks saddles!! No one in Winnipeg has even heard of them. I got mine from Wallingford Bicycles.

2. Depending on which company you buy stuff from, it's much, much less expensive.

BostonFixed

You have good points. You have discoverd many of the dirty secrets of internet selling and in business in general.
They do it because they can! With their reputation, people are buying a product as well as the quality reputation from a well established and well regarded shop.

MrEWorm

Please post the name , address and phone number of your LBS. If you have been pleased with their pricing and service, pass the info on so that they can get some volume business.
You named the companies you don't want to do business with, please name the good company.

Schumius

i only buy from the internet if my LBSs don´t carry the stuff i want. they frowned on me when i mentioned the name brooks, let along carrying it or ordering it for me. but normally they have better price in the LBSs than the internet (costs on shipping, customs, etc)

velotimbe

I buy from the internet because:

cheaper (cmon kids, I am living on around $10k per year.......)

Better installation than a shop (I have 8 years shop sales and mech experience, the last thing I want is the punk newbie kid touching my bike, I think we can all agree that we would rather do installation ourselves on nice parts like a brooks saddle)

faster (how many shops stock what we need? I get it faster through mailorder than waiting for the shop to get it from a wholesaler)

return policy (most mailorder places take stuff back no questions asked, because they can re-sell it, but how many shops will take back a special-ordered brooks saddle or custom 36 spoke wheelset?)

roadfix

Two major reasons for me:

1) Convinience. I put in a 60+ hour work week and it is so much easier to have stuff shipped to my business address, usually within a couple days. I use Nashbar quite a bit.

2) Although I live in LA and there are many LBS's in my area, none carry decent touring gear. I would rather deal with on-line touring specialty shops. I've dealt with Rivendell, Peter White, Wallingford, Arkel, Old Man Mountain, Jandd, Permaco, & others...

Price is usually not a factor because a couple LBS's match on-line deals for me anyway. I try to patronize my LBS's every chance I get. They usually get fixed gear parts for me, next day.... keeps me happy.

Zenbiker

For those of you who care, the name of the shop is Funstuff Recreational Equipment, the adress is 2160 Flamingo Road, Kamloops, B.C. V2C 4J9, and the phone number is (250) 374-8400. It's a great little shop that, if your ever in Kamloops, would be worth your time to check out. I scored a great deal on a Marin Venezia there and got a free pair of shoes and SPD pedals with my purchase. I know it isn't exactly a touring bike, but I planning to run a seatpost rack with a set a panniers for some light touring. I don't like to carry over 15 kilograms anyway.

wahoonc

My job keeps me on the road, so I get to vist LBS all over the place. Most of the ones that I have been to typically fall into one of two categories, they have all the newest coolest go fast roadie stuff, or the biggest baddest, gnarly MB stuff, neither of which is my riding style I am a fast recreational/tourbike rider. To get the specfic items I want I have to order online. Another issue that I ran into was trying to find a set of 7sp STI's. SOL with the LBS in 4 states, ordered them online from Harris Cycle, the only place that had them. FWIW when I am home I do frequent my LBS, I have purchased at least 10 bicycles from them, and on occasion use the mechanics there when I don't have the time or resources to do the work myself. The shop in question is Hawley's Bicycle shop in Fayetteville, NC. They do hire proper mechanics, one of the guys there has been there for over 12 years cumulative and is the shop manager. He is a rider/racer so he knows what it takes.

JMHO

Aaron

Netcelt

I try and support my LBS when I can. However if their price is quite a bit over what I can get it for online then I have to buy it online. I support local business but I also have to support myself and my family. The amount of price difference is always the factor. There is also the issue of what I call bike shop posers. My local (and only) bike shop is staffed with wannabe Lances. Every time I go in there to get a replacement part or tire or tube for my 7-year old GT mountain bike tourer I get scoffed at. They all own fancy carbon fiber bikes (worth many thousands) and usually have no time to help the guy or gal who actually uses their real bike. I have even tried riding with them on Saturday mornings and can keep up with some of them. This has served to make them more cheesed off because I ride with new balances, track bottoms and a plain cotton T-shirt, and on a mountain bike. The guy on the mountain bike and street clothes has just unjustified their $6000 carbon ultralight bike that was supposed to have made them faster. So I have been discouraged and now just ride by myself or with a few unlycrad friends and only visit the bike shop if I need something right away.

Roughstuff

hehe...yeah..I notice the same thing, though I doubt i could keep up with racers. My favorite story was a hoser buddy who was my sister-in-laws brother (???). He was one of these stuck up new age-of-aquarius northern californians who had to show me his super carbon fiber or whatever bike. I rode over to his house, looking grubby and smelling to high heaven [i was on a tour, and wanted to make the wrong (right?) impression on him]. He says the bike is in the garage. Up goes the (automatic) door...where is the bike? I asked..which peeved him no end!

It was hanging upside from the rafters like some kind of bat! I guess the tires bearing the weight of the bike for all those hours would be too much to handle. I was so visibly underwhelmed he closed the garage door and gave me a dirty look. By the end of the day I probably rode my bike more than he rode his all summer.

roughstuff

x2mars

here the lbs shops are mostly just repair shops for delivery bikes, they could care less about selling a bike

SoonerBent

Some of these reasons are bike specific and some are in general.

1. The LBS's here carry a lousy selection of bikes and equipment.
2. The LBS's, usually, are more expensive than web shops. Even with shipping.
3. I am the best mechanic I know.
4. On the web I can search and find every brand, type, price level, etc. of something I'm looking for.
5. On the web I can search manufacturers sites to see what they say about their products.
6. On the web I don't have to listen to sales people who have no clue trying to tell me what I want or how to do something.
7. Things are waiting for me on the porch when I get home so I can install and ride, sail, etc. instead of having to spend the evening or Saturday morning running around looking for something I want.

OK I've vented now. I feel better.


SS

Sebach

I think my LBS (really local, less than half a mile away) sucks. The people working there never seem happy and look down on you if you ask for something they don't carry. Sort of like "if we don't have it, you shouldn't be looking for it" attitude. And stuff seems so overpriced that if they can get 1 fish to make a decent size purchase, it makes up for the other 10 bikers who walk out scratching their heads wondering how the place can still be in business. I don't know how these guys at this LBS actually ENJOY riding at all.

I don't even go in there to look at stuff anymore. I went there once because I busted a spoke and they tried to give me the whole "your transmission, clutch and alternator are shot and need to be changed too" routine on my 3 month old bike. Wheee, haven't set foot in there since. Now if I need something small, even just cables, I go to a different shop that's like 5 miles away.

That's why I get my gear online: no LBSBS.

photojtn

Wow....I guess by reading the post, I'm kinda lucky, Here in Charlotte my lbs is great they usually have what I'm looking for or get it fast, they do know touring cyclist because most of them tour, and the mech is second to none. There have been two times I ordered on-line and that was for the Brook's saddles (Wallingford), and my panniers, bar bag and rack from Bob Beckman. I too have been in shops that frown on touring cyclist (Racer wanna-be's). In general I have no problem with my lbs and the internet.
The lbs is; Bicycle Sport, Charlotte, NC (704)335-0323

BostonFixed

There are plenty of great shops in NYC, that is BS....

TheDL

Hehehe, here in PDX there's a shop or two where if they even THINK you might own a car they snub ya. It's like "Dude, I'm here because my bike is broken...I HAD to drive here."

Mr_Super_Socks

I agree generally - but they still have all the shortcomings mentioned.

After just spending $120 on a ti seatpost for my roadbike, I stop in to R&A cycles in Brooklyn.

Me: hey, I have this great quill stem, but it is a 26.0. I don't want to replace my bars, cuz they're great, but they're a 25.4. Do you guys sell those shims I have seen?

R&A: There is no such thing. At least not that will work.

So I call Harris Cyclery in Boston and order the Nitto stainless shim. Works great.

Another occassion

Me: DO you have a 5mm to 4mm step-down ferrule for a derailleur cable end?

R & A: Maybe. I don't have time to check. Just come in and take a look at what we've got. (hours 10AM to 7pm)

I couldn't make it in, so I ordered the stupid thing from loose screws.

They probably don't care because these are probably zero-profit items and they primarily sell high-end road bikes to racers and teams. Nonetheless, unhelpful is unhelpful. I still go there.

My local bike shop on Vanderbilt Ave. has probably one of the coolest mechs I know and I go there all the time. BUT -- he carries like 0 inventory. So that's why I order online. cheaper, faster and I can always find what I need.

darkmother

If your LBS has cheaper prices, than by all means, go for it. Nice to keep a locally owned shop in business. None of the ones in my city are very competetive with what I can get from Ebay, in terms of total cost, so I usually get my gear their. Occasionally I buy spokes, or other hardware from my LBS, but normally, their prices are just too high.

webist

That is...until the LBS fails and goes out of business.

jnoble123

Hi.

I read somewhere that the initial price of a computer is something like only 15% of it's final cost when you factor in support etc.

I tend to think of bikes in a similar way. Sure you bought the bike and you feel that you paid less then you would elsewhere. This is good if:

a) You ended up purchasing good quality equipment that really is designed to do the stuff you want to do.
b) The equipment comes with great advice and support on how to make the bike even more reliable when touring.
c) The equipment fits you properly so that at the end of a 100 mile plus day in the saddle you still feel good.
d) The shop actually understands what bicycle touring is all about.

I do support two local bike shops in my town because they do good work and treat me fairly. Neither one of those shops have anywhere close to the knowledge about wheels that Peter White does. Neither one has knowledge about the wide range of parts including the exotic bits and pieces as does Sheldon Brown.

Nowadays I do not hesitate to send my money towards some of the shops that actually participate in online forums, newsgroups and mailing list with their goal being to discuss touring etc and not just hook a few more sales. In fact I created a page on the bicycle touring 101 website that mentions some of these shops by name. The page is called "Vendors who support touring through Online participation" and it's at:

https://bicycletouring101.com/LinksOnlineVendors.htm

You'll find links on the page to these shops including a description of where they participate online and how.

BTW: I too am canadian and like you I also purchased a Brooks saddle. I purchased mine from Wallbike in the US so yes the saddle likely cost me more money upfront. The advantage through is that I purchased from a company with great customer service, a fantastic reputation and of course a six month money back guarantee if the saddle didn't work out for me. The extra money was worth all of that to me.

~Jamie N
www.bicycletouring101.com

Cyclist0094

my LBS is in my town pays taxes here and charges a fair price for his goods so I give him 85% of my business. I just ordered some 10spd ultegra parts ( everything but the crank and shifters) all told he was about $35 more than supergo who had the lowest web prices I found. But it is worth the extra $35 to have him around when something breaks and I need it right away. I do some mail order especially my cycling clothing from MEC in Canada and Long Cycles in Boston . and some parts he can't get wholesale like Rivendale stuff.

seely

I work at a shop and I can't even buy a B17 for myself at $50... you got a good deal but don't immediately point a finger accusing reputable dealers of ripping people off.

Flaneur

The market for bikes and accessories is so fragmented now, it's unrealistic to expect shops to have an exhaustive inventory. A lot of the more knowledgeable cyclists on this forum and elsewhere don't necessarily need the advice, or workshop facilities, of a good LBS either. Irony is, some of those experienced cyclists still support and acknowledge the benefits of a good network of shops. When they do stock a product you want, the convenience is unmatched- plus you get to see and touch the thing before buying it. The best shops are a conduit for community action and provide a support function also.

The internet has made us all a little less patient. Often, we do our research before visiting a shop, we know the options and price differentials. In specialist areas- and with expensive products- it is a rare combination that puts the avid tourist and expert retailer in the same locality.

I buy road consumables from a local dealer, MTB stuff from another. Some specialist stuff I get from online outlets, some on order at the shops. I also deal online with companies that used to be my LBS's, years ago (the ultimate compromise?).

It's the nature of things now: a wide choice of good stuff, if you're prepared to look and are flexible in your approach. I don't earn a lot of money but I still don't act as though price was the only arbiter. A good relationship with a supplier can pay social, or service dividends, that a butterfly approach will overlook.