FBinNY 

I don't know about that pillow, but usually quick dump valves aren't there to please users. Most dump valves are also sprung to open at a set pressure and are there to prevent the pillow from bursting if, for example, a hippo sits on it. These kind of blowout valves are SOP on many air bladder devices.

staehpj1

You may be right about the design being at least in part being used as a safety valve. They are huge for a little pillow though. They even restrict neatly rolling the pillow to it's minimum rolled size. I think they are the same valves they use on their sleeping mats so it was probably easier to just use them rather than design something appropriate to the size of the pillow. Personally I think a beach ball type valve would be adequate for the pillow.

nun

It's an example of the teutonic love of over engineering....

counterfit_hero

I went from Paris to Amsterdam with:

Gelert solo tent
Cheap minimal sleeping mat from ebay
Sleeping bag liner (was too cold after a few days so bought a cheap sleeping bag)
Phone
passport
cards
button compass
couple of jerseys
some underwear/socks
shorts
1 x jeans for going out at night
1 x top for going out at night
1 x vans for off the bike
combination cable lock
jacket

put all of this in my messenger bag and strapped that to a tubis fly type rack.

mdilthey

I think staehpj1 and bmike and I ought to tour together... we seem to have parallel thoughts on almost all aspects of adventuring.

Balaclava: I, too, can't stand them until things drop below zero. Unfortunately, I still ride when things drop below zero so I will be buying one this winter. For anything above zero, I grew a beard for a reason.

Frame Bags weight/volume: The frame bags by Revelate Designs and similar are a pretty good weight/volume ratio. I think the Viscacha is the worst, and the Tangle and other frame bags are the best in this regard (assuming you have a big frame). Nothing really beats a large drybag strapped somewhere, perhaps a rack (but, factor in the weight of the rack).

There are other advantages to the frame bags, though, I put weight as perhaps #3 .

1. Frame bags keep the load tight to the geometry of the bike, meaning the bike behaves well off-road, in high wind, in snow, in mud, and when standing still (ever had your touring bike fall underneath you at a stoplight? I have).

2. Frame bags keep everything organized and ready for quick access. If I had to guess, I would say a minimalist and a maximalist could easily both have between 30 and 40 individual items. Look at bmike's list. We might reduce the weight of our clothes, shelter, and insulation, but even militant minimalists still have toothbrushes, gloves, lights, matches, tools, gadgets, widgets, gizmos, doodads, etc. Having so many smaller frame bags makes organizing this stuff easier, which eans less time packing and unpacking, which means more time riding.

3. All things considered, the bags are pretty light. Racks and ortliebs can easily get up to 5-7lbs or more. That's my whole sleep system and a day's worth of food!


For those interested in this style of touring, the grandfather is iik, and his site is Here. He would likely scoff at bmike and I for our 27+lb bikes. Sure, the steel is real and the builds make sense, but iik travels on the lightest bike he can find and counts the weight of the bicycle in with his touring load. That is a dangerous game, since $10,000 gets you a 14lb bicycle, but the exercise is definitely important to consider. Can you cut down your seatpost, run lighter tires, use soft water bottles instead of hard ones with cages, or ditch a rack? Potentially greater weight savings are on the bike, not in the handle of your toothbrush.

bmike

yeah, for sure my rig is heavy! 32 pounds for the krampus. of course, I just ordered a rohloff hub... that will pork it up some more!
my indy fab is way lighter, but still, with dynohub, fenders, and modest components (and a brooks saddle!) its portly compared to Nun's Cervelo...

my list is long. if i spent $$ on laser surgery i could ditch my glasses, contacts, fluid, etc.
i could also trim creature comforts - camera, backup battery, GPS (although, its damned useful when crossing mountains on 2 track trail that you can sort of see...)

and then we get into cooking and being on or off the beaten path. if i cut my cook kit out and planned on town stops and cold food (i would need a coffee withdrawal program before i started) i would cut even more.

depends on what the goals, terrain, etc, are.

when i race the tour divide i'll be going ultralight, on a heavy bike with big tires and the rohloff (i don't want to run front suspensios...)
likely have a bivy, no tent, my porcho tarp, water purification, cold clothes, and etc... but the cook kit and some of the other things will stay behind.

but for normal trips, i see a workable load right now - and it goes up or down based on season.
would love to cut another 3-4 pounds out of it. new sleeping bag and pad are required. but i can lose that weight off my body a whole lot cheaper than i can upgrade that stuff.

mdilthey

I'm on a high-fat, high-protein diet to put weight back on my body... I've been riding so much, I lost a bit too much. Maybe when I get my fat layer back, I can carry less insulation... Ha!

nun

Bikepacking's large number of bags....and often using a backpack.... are a negative for me. I like having just 2 bags. If I leave my bike I can quickly and easily take the Ortlieb handlebar bag with me and I think the Carradice saddlebag gives better organization. Two outside pockets are good for quick access to tools etc and the flap and large opening of the main compartment make it easier to get at stuff than a bikepacking type of saddlebag. When I'm traveling on planes or trains having two easily carried bags is very convenient too.

mdilthey

Nun, I completely agree. When I road tour I use a rack and two Ortlieb front rollers because the simplicity of taking bags with me is too much to pass up, and is worth the extra weight.

I have toured very long distances with a drybag strapped to a rack and found it annoying to have to pack it carefully each morning, and not having access during the day was an annoyance as well. I try not to do that anymore.

I usually see bikepacking as a short-distance off-road experience, so multiple bags become less of an issue because most of your time is spent off the beaten path. That obviously has a big exception- the endurance-style bikepacking rides like the Tour Divide. Still, here, the emphasis seems to be on the wilderness.



I don't like to reinforce or recognize stereotypes about bike touring, but I do not consider frame bags on a road bike to be bikepacking (and I used to fall victim to this myself). Simply put, bikepacking is a majority off-road activity. Bike touring is a majority on-road activity. How you pack your stuff is irrelevant.

bmike

FWIW, Ive been backpack free for awhile now, with the exception of last years November overnight. Simply needed more bulk for clothes. Folks who run full suspension off road usually need to use one due to the compromise of the main triangle space for storing stuff.

My sweetroll comes off the front with 4 clips. The saddlebag with 2 + the Velcro seat strap. Regardless, if I carried as little as nun showed on his cervelo I could get away with just the frame and saddle bag.

Also consider that touring fat or semi fat off-road means larger tubes, maybe different tools, and likely a cook kit and water purification. Something that many on road tourists can do without. Or at least the water part.

I tried to like a Nelson long flap and camper long flap, but it's a lot of weight for the capacity. And I hate hate hate messing with those buckles. Especially when they freeze.

I've got my system down to locate the things I typically need during the day in key locations. Clothes and sleep kit get put in places harder to access. And with the sweetroll I can stuff in extra layers to either side of the front roll without undoing the whole mess like when using a harness and dry bag.

But, YMMV, try it you might like it, RyOR, etc etc.

Cool to see all the different setups.
For my IF I have a Salsa down under front rack and some panniers. I have a tangle frame bag and I would use my small Ortlieb seat bag for tools.

robow

I've disliked most inflatables but love the small pack size and minimal weight. Should I ask Santa to drop one off this Christmas?

mm718

I tried the Exped and for me the comfort was just so-so. It's not uncomfortable but it could never compare to a real (stuffed) pillow. I use the REI compressible pillow. It's 7 ounces and the pack size isn't great but oh what a difference.

staehpj1

I guess everyone is different... I found the REI compressible pillow to have way too little height, it just wasn't firm enough and collapsed down to nothing in use. Most similar camp pillows I found the same. Before I discovered the Exped, I used either a 1/4 size regular pillow from a fabric store ($7 and 12 oz), or a stuff sack with clothing (worked best when I took either a down vest or a puffy sweater). All more or less worked, but I like the Exped best.

For a regular stuffed pillow I found the fabric store ones cheaper, firmer, and available in a wide variety of sizes. For me most pillows sold as camp pillows never worked out well whether inflatable or stuffed, and I tried a lot of different ones over the years.

It is definitely an item where personal preference is the order of the day though.

mm718

I agree pillow height preferences are highly individual. The REI compressible pillow just happened to be a good match for me. I like the different warm and cool weather fabrics and because it feels "homier" than an inflatable. Also, as easy as it is to inflate the Exped I got sort of tired of doing that day after day, adjusting the pressure to make it comfortable, etc. Comfort wise the Exped felt OK but after awhile if I didn't fall asleep right away it felt like I was wobbling around on a balloon. Many people love them and you can't beat the weight and packability but I'll forego a few ounces in the name of comfort.

iforgotmename

Yes

mdilthey

My fleece is an A+ pillow, slept many nights on it.

Walter S

I just pile up the clothes I took off getting in the hammock and lay my head on that.

hueyhoolihan

to mention anything else in a thread titled "mininalist touring" is an abomination.

Walter S

Except the part about taking a hammock I guess. I really should be sleeping on the ground after foraging in the brush for something to eat.

LeeG

35 yrs ago it was sleeping bag, poncho, 3/4 camp pad, wind breaker, jersey, light sweater, cycling shorts, pair of thin wool pants, two pairs of socks, bike shoes, KungFu slippers. A few oz toiletries, small flashlight, sunglasses, bandana and cycling gloves. About 12lbs, two lbs in small handlebar bag and rest in tight bundle on rear rack riding a road racing bike. Worked for about 600miles cycling around California for a couple weeks.

nun

The Carradice saddlebag is definitely far from perfect, but because I tour on roads and sometimes use buses and trains I like it's more "luggagey" quality compared to bike packing bags. I'd like to see it made from lighter materials and the straps and buckles are a bit fiddly sometimes, but I can live with them. There is always the Super C saddlebag which has clips or this rather marvelous DIY version, as well as the Dill Pickle versions.

A DIY Longflap Saddlebag for Minimalist Bike Touring - Pedaling Nowhere

The Ortlieb suffers from having an annoying to close lid, but the Klickfix mount is great and as I often leave my bike to go sightseeing or buy food I need a really fast and easy way to get the handlebar bag off the bike and the shoulder strap makes it easy to carry. And drop bars make it a better choice than most of the bike packing handlebar harnesses. In fact with only 2x bags (Ortlieb and Carradice saddlebag) I can easily carry both on my shoulder and take them on as hand luggage on trains, buses and planes. Bike packing bags are really good for off road travel, but for touring on roads and in cities and maybe taking public transportation i think my set up is more convenient.....but both are better than 4x panniers and a handlebar bag.

My bags do not have the best volume to weight ratio, lightweight bikepacking bags win out there, but I only have 2 bags and I think they give me more convenient access to my gear, there's just too much velcro and clips and straps when you have 5 bags on the bike. My bags weigh 3.5lbs and if you start adding up the weights of a bikepacking saddlebag, frame bag, gas can, handlebar harness and dry bag you quickly approach 3lbs of bags.

hueyhoolihan

yes, it sounds appropriate., but.

OTOH, swinging between two trees all night like an orangutan has an atavistic quality to it that is compelling too.

staehpj1

Even when my list is pared down to 6 pounds of gear and bags including cooking and camping stuff, I still don't find a 3 oz pillow to be a huge splurge.

BigAura

I carry a small zippered fleece pillowcase (2.5 ozs) that I stuff with clothes. For my bike tours (not minimalist) it's a worthy addition to my comfort. That said, I don't carry it backpacking, preferring to forgo the weight and use my sleeping bag stuff sack (.5ozs) instead. So for me a pillow is not minimalist.

nun

Minimal touring = Rondonnee (Audax)

Turning my attentions towards LEL | Audax and long distance cycling