dunderhi

@wens Thanks!

My motivation is high with the trainer, but the reality check for me is that it is only January. I'm not sure what my motivation will be for indoor training in June, since I've never stayed indoors beyond March in the past. TrainerRoad does provide a different workout for almost session, so there's a chance it might stay fresh. Also, periodization and power trainer is new to me, so maybe I could remain focused on the big picture rather than each Saturday's results.


Tough question, if it was up to me, I would equip each bike with a PM, but Mrs D would have a much different perspective. So for now, let's assume that I can get one - independent of price.

I found this, which looks like a pretty nice track solution: SRM Training System - Track


My indoor trainer already has power.

Got it. I'll also be using my mass start bike on the rollers during the winter/preseason.

I have a matching time trial bike that I was planning to use on the indoor trainer to get comfortable with the aero position and power delivery.

I use 165 & 170mm cranks on my mass start bike and 172.5mm with the potential of going to 175mm on my pursuit bike. If I only have one unit, do you think it would be better to pick one (170?) and share between the bikes? I find I can spin quite well in a mass start, but I tend to push in the pursuit. Hopefully the trainer will allow me experiment much more than I have in the past.

gtrob

Weight won't be an issue. Only people I see go under are very small bikes and small carbon wheels (like 202s).

The seat is what gets people. Assuming they are enforcing the new 9deg rule that probably isn't an issue, but they do measure the full saddle, so a flat saddle with a kick up at the back looks quite a bit down. You do need to be 5cm+ back from the BB, but the Omnium design doesn't put you that far forward anyway. Again, more of an issue for people very short/xs bikes. Seat angle at 3deg was a real pain on some seats.

Pursuit bars are another thing people fail on a lot but won't be the case here, but something to consider if you come up for provincials in March (and you should!).

Hida Yanra

I rode a Small Omnium w/ disc&trispoke for two years, I wasn't at the weight limit - but my disc was an older HED model.
I'd tend to think that you'll be fine.

for ROM, weigh yourself while holding bike and while not holding it. If your 90mm wheels are generic china specials, you should be fine. If they are 808s and you have a thin/light saddle, it'll be closer.

wens

Saddle is a phenom, so relatively flat. I think I would have been fine on 3 degrees after a slightly hokey measurement, so I'm not very worried about 9.

Wheels are planet x, so gigantex rims and, I'm guessing, formula hubs. Not super light. Sounds like I should be fine, I suppose I'll stand on a scale with the bike so I feel better though.

Banchad

This is from another sprint I did today and its the best data I can get even though its probably utter garbage.
Please ignore the .2 on the first value

taras0000

That's pretty good! Over 2G for 5s power. Next time, hold out for 11 seconds, and you can get 10s and 5s Power in one shot. I used to do 15s every once in a while because it was good for F200 analysis.

Banchad

2000W for 5s? I wish! The time increments are .5 seconds.

carleton

Yeah, that's what I'd expect the distribution to look like. Good job, man!

2,000W for 5s is "You are getting a phone call from someone at USA Cycling" power.

wens

15.6 lbs on my bathroom scale, so I guess I'm fine. Stupid rule for track bikes though.

carleton

Bathroom scales can be off by a lot. Trust me, I monitored my weight religiously for years and generic bathroom scales are the worst for being accurate or repeatable.

That being said, tell us about your event. Are they going to weigh every bike and send you packing if you are 1oz under 15lbs or if you don't fit on the bike jig? Or is it on the honor system where they want everyone to do their best to get used to racing under UCI/USA Cycling rules. I would do this. It would suck to train the entire season with your saddle 2cm behind your BB then realize at Nationals you have to be 5cm back. It may not affect your performance, but it may affect your confidence*.

*I once had bike check 15 minutes before a Kilo at Masters. I failed because my aerobar extensions were like 6" too far forward. I had to hustle and adjust them as opposed to getting ready for my event. I was rattled a bit.

The reason I ask is that Bike Check is time (and resource) consuming. I've been to Masters Track Nationals where they express: If you think you are going to break a national or world record, go to bike check before you race. Otherwise, it's on the honor system.

Hida Yanra

HA! I also used a Phenom, stellar track saddle for years- until I got myself into a +45' track race, then I realized that it didn't have enough padding
Good luck, what's the event you are looking at, something to the north of US?

they can, but I *think* I recall Wens talking about weight and tracking his reasonably well - it's at least a start and I think he's likely using a decent one.

Wens - One other thing you can do is go to any bike shop you like, they'll have a scale and can sort out the weight stuff for you.

Hida Yanra

I mean, how picky are the judges going to be? **technically**, generic carbon wheels aren't UCI legal, but I've never had a UCI ref call me on it.

Dalai

UCI approved wheels rule only applied to road wheels...

Dalai

Really depends on which bike you will be riding the key sessions on? You said your trainer has power, if using this primarily for your intervals you will ideally want to ride the bike with the PM a few times to see how close the trainer is to the PM which I would expect to be more accurate.

Normally if only having one PM, I'd suggest the road bike if that is your primary interval bike. I have SRM's on most of my bikes. Of all the bikes the least beneficial is on the CX bike, closely followed by the track bike as I do most of my key interval work outs on the road bike. On the track the one real benefit I've found it having data from my Pursuits to review and plan my training accordingly.

Since you plan on using the trainer once you can confirm its accuracy then a Track PM could be a good thing. Not sure about the Rotor Track SRM, but be aware the SRM crankarmed Track cranks were not waterproof. Worth noting if you wanted to use outdoors in inclement weather. You can though actually change the crank arms if you want to have different lengths. My older cranks have the bolts accessible from the front and I did buy a set of 175mm arms with the intention to swap from the 170mm arms for pursuits. Since I've read a number of studies, but mostly couldn't be bothered so have stuck with the 170's for pursuiting and bunch races.

Another better valued track crank (not sure if waterproof) is the Power2Max units. Only downside IMO with the P2Max unit is you can't do a static calibration like an SRM to confirm the slope value is correct. This may not be an issue for you but I am disappointed this cannot be done otherwise they have been around a while now and I haven't heard of many issues since they started producing V2.

wens

I actually have phenoms on all my bikes, so I've gotten accustomed to the lack of padding. I actually used the first iteration of the ronin for a while, but I kept breaking shells somehow.

Heading up to race in Ontario. It's a good thing the people who complain about usac rules don't have to deal with UCI ones, they'd lose their s***. So many of these rules are just not well executed.

queerpunk

Both times I've been to elite nats, Bike Check starts out fairly 'rigorous' - they put the bike in the jig, eyed it closely, and then put it on the scale. and, later on in the week (particularly for mass start races), Bike Check began to be, "yup, it's the same bike as you had before; put it on the scale. okay."

Hida Yanra

as do I- they are fantastic - Specialized used to make a TT version of the Phenom w/ the same shape, but a bunch more padding on the nose - it looks similar but visibly different - I switched to that one after the races started getting long, and I was doing them on on shorter tracks - YMMV, but if you ever run into that issue, the Phenom Gel is worth a look. link to one

Sorta thought you might be headed to Ontario- I'd love to hear a report on the track and the facilities up there? I don't know much about that track.

gtrob

Ontario races under a UCI license, so enforces UCI rules for track. Before each race you have to check in at bike check, they sometimes weigh the bike, they ALWAYS check the saddle and bars in a jig (takes about 30 seconds). Zero tolerance, Ive had to adjust a 3.2deg seat before, and push back a seat that was 2mm too far. Also a rollout for Jrs as they have gear restrictions.

almost all pass for mass start and sprint rules. Pursuit bars get most people the first time, people set them too long.

dunderhi

@Dalai Thanks!

Given my local undulating terrain, I find it difficult to have a regimented/planned training program. Normally, it's either climb hard or climb harder, which isn't always a lot of fun for a big guy. So the intervals on the trainer seemingly would be the best route to go.

Again, I'm an old dog learning new tricks, so I guess I'm willing to give one length of arm for both events a try.

I do like the pricing of Power2Max option. Is calibration an issue with these crankset-type PMs? More specifically, if you have calibratable unit, does it need much calibration?

dunderhi

Has anyone tried a short seats to meet compliance? Are there any rules against them?

queerpunk

I have used a Specialized TTS (way too soft for my linking; very comfortable, but kind of unstable), and use a Fizik Ares now (which I love).

No rules against 'em that I know of (or that were enforced at events running UCI rules!).

I like the Ares because it feels very similar to the Antares, which I had been using prior, but it just has a shorter nose. it also looks normal. but tiny.

wens

There's a minimum length in the rules, but those saddles are mostly designed for fitting into the UCI 5 cm behind the bb rule, and so they're also over the minimum length.

gtrob

The 5cm behind the BB is mostly an issue for tri bikes in a TT, as they have geometries that put you way forward. Most track bikes will be able to fit based on the rails alone, with the exception of very very small frames, since the post is usually at an angle, the lower the seat the further forward you are. On the flip side, my long legs put me 7cm back with the saddle sitting as far forward as the rails will let me. I couldn't go over 5cm if I wanted to lol

In any case Wens, definitely get your bike checked an hour before your race for a peace of mind, and have tools handy

queerpunk

nope - setback difficulties are not limited to very very small frames. in fact i would say that the problem stretches up into "ordinary sized" frames. I ride a 52, and many saddles in the middle of a setback post sometimes pass forward of the BB; getting 5cm behind that is out of the question for almost all saddles.

i had to pick and choose my saddle carefully to ensure that it'll clear the BB, and i chose the TT saddle to get closer to 5mm so that i wouldn't have to worry about getting a morphological exemption.

dunderhi

I measured my 59cm pursuit bike in a rig last year and it failed both the seat and bar position. The seat failed by just a fraction, since I had the aero post oriented so the seat would be forward. Something like the Ares saddle might be a more subtle and possibly more comfortable solution. For the bars, I plan to try a shorter stem and pull in the skis just a bit.