2014 Flying 200m Challenge
#151
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
11.52 last night during a training session. This early season is shaping up very well.
Maybe will have another update on Saturday if it's not too windy. I'll actually have some aero gear on this weekend.
Maybe will have another update on Saturday if it's not too windy. I'll actually have some aero gear on this weekend.
#152
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What have you Hellyer guys who have come down to LAV found the difference on 200m's to be?
my highly limited experience with 333's:
1)exactly 1 200m at Indy (ridden poorly but still within a 10th of my then best)
2) comparing times from riders i know at LAV and San Diego Velodrome
has led me to believe that LAV is not really much faster over that distance than a good 333m.
especially if you are not pretty knowledgeable about how to ride LAV- in particular the wind-up..
any thoughts from guys who have ridden both?
my highly limited experience with 333's:
1)exactly 1 200m at Indy (ridden poorly but still within a 10th of my then best)
2) comparing times from riders i know at LAV and San Diego Velodrome
has led me to believe that LAV is not really much faster over that distance than a good 333m.
especially if you are not pretty knowledgeable about how to ride LAV- in particular the wind-up..
any thoughts from guys who have ridden both?
#153
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oh- and Congrats on the 11.52" Jaytron- thats Fast!
Now do it Saturday with someone who doesn't work for you working the clock!
Now do it Saturday with someone who doesn't work for you working the clock!
#154
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What have you Hellyer guys who have come down to LAV found the difference on 200m's to be?
my highly limited experience with 333's:
1)exactly 1 200m at Indy (ridden poorly but still within a 10th of my then best)
2) comparing times from riders i know at LAV and San Diego Velodrome
has led me to believe that LAV is not really much faster over that distance than a good 333m.
especially if you are not pretty knowledgeable about how to ride LAV- in particular the wind-up..
any thoughts from guys who have ridden both?
my highly limited experience with 333's:
1)exactly 1 200m at Indy (ridden poorly but still within a 10th of my then best)
2) comparing times from riders i know at LAV and San Diego Velodrome
has led me to believe that LAV is not really much faster over that distance than a good 333m.
especially if you are not pretty knowledgeable about how to ride LAV- in particular the wind-up..
any thoughts from guys who have ridden both?
For flying 200M and Standing 500M (Elite, Junior, Male and Female): I've watched racers go from DLV to LAV and expect faster times and not be rewarded. They came out about the same. The same for the Superdrome.
I actually believe that Rock Hill is faster than LAV due to it's smoother turns that don't seem to scrub off speed. At LAV, I distinctly remember having to fight my way out of the turns to regain my speed after diving into them. I didn't have to do that so much at Rock Hill.
Last edited by carleton; 05-02-14 at 09:29 PM.
#155
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For me LA is two seconds faster for a kilo, but I've yet to do a good 200 on LA so can't really comment. I feel like it should give me .3-.5 over Hellyer if I nail it. I think for Allen V it was something like .2-.3 faster, but don't quote me.
#156
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I actually know a bunch of people with average(12-13") 200's who can go faster at Encino- but its most likely do to the fact that you don't have to learn how to conserve energy during the wind-up.
i think the 333's tend to be fast simply because you go through less turns a speed- and LAV's turns are tight and hard to put out watts.. i certainly felt that with more time and not almost crashing mid effort- i could of ridden a very good 200 at Indy..
#157
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not to derail the 200m thread too much with Kilo Talk-
But i find the big discrepancy in kilo times between LAV and an outdoor track tend to be biggest on lap 3 and 4. My opening 500m split on my best kilo at LAV and Encino are the same- but my best Encino Kilo time is 2" slower..
But i find the big discrepancy in kilo times between LAV and an outdoor track tend to be biggest on lap 3 and 4. My opening 500m split on my best kilo at LAV and Encino are the same- but my best Encino Kilo time is 2" slower..
#158
Senior Member
not to derail the 200m thread too much with Kilo Talk-
But i find the big discrepancy in kilo times between LAV and an outdoor track tend to be biggest on lap 3 and 4. My opening 500m split on my best kilo at LAV and Encino are the same- but my best Encino Kilo time is 2" slower..
But i find the big discrepancy in kilo times between LAV and an outdoor track tend to be biggest on lap 3 and 4. My opening 500m split on my best kilo at LAV and Encino are the same- but my best Encino Kilo time is 2" slower..
#159
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#160
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
What have you Hellyer guys who have come down to LAV found the difference on 200m's to be?
my highly limited experience with 333's:
1)exactly 1 200m at Indy (ridden poorly but still within a 10th of my then best)
2) comparing times from riders i know at LAV and San Diego Velodrome
has led me to believe that LAV is not really much faster over that distance than a good 333m.
especially if you are not pretty knowledgeable about how to ride LAV- in particular the wind-up..
any thoughts from guys who have ridden both?
my highly limited experience with 333's:
1)exactly 1 200m at Indy (ridden poorly but still within a 10th of my then best)
2) comparing times from riders i know at LAV and San Diego Velodrome
has led me to believe that LAV is not really much faster over that distance than a good 333m.
especially if you are not pretty knowledgeable about how to ride LAV- in particular the wind-up..
any thoughts from guys who have ridden both?
Oh today we had 3 timers for the event. Finally busted out the race wheels and managed a 11.37 on a fairly windy day. I had some problems with stability, sat earlyand swung up a bit :/ better luck next time I guess. A little frustrated that I screwed it up, but happy for the PB.
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Nice work Jaytron!
looking forward to seeing you down at LAV!!!
ill update the chart tomorrow.. you can give me your new goal time also
looking forward to seeing you down at LAV!!!
ill update the chart tomorrow.. you can give me your new goal time also
#162
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
Yeah, I need to go do the certification stuff and ride a real velodrome! Excited to see if LA is faster or not for me, it seems to be different with each rider.
New goal time: 11.16
Personal goal is to hopefully get there by the end of this season
#164
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
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and most of the differences have to do with learning the correct technique- its a specialized track.. your coach will get you there fast though
This is knowledge that will be used against you if we ever match sprint!!
#167
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
Get it done so you can race here!
and most of the differences have to do with learning the correct technique- its a specialized track.. your coach will get you there fast though
Uht-Oh! you are catching up with me! i better up my game!
This is knowledge that will be used against you if we ever match sprint!!
and most of the differences have to do with learning the correct technique- its a specialized track.. your coach will get you there fast though
Uht-Oh! you are catching up with me! i better up my game!
This is knowledge that will be used against you if we ever match sprint!!
I still have a ton of weaknesses when it comes down to match Sprint tactics unfortunately There's so much to learn!
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Remember how mentally stimulating driving a car was the first time you got behind the wheel? So much to think about and everything is coming at you so fast. After a while, all of that goes away and it gets easier.
Just listen to your coach and race as much as possible and don't put too much emphasis on results. Just get experience and "reps".
Last edited by carleton; 05-04-14 at 12:51 PM.
#169
aka mattio
So I've actually had a few track workout sessions prior to opening night this season (opening night is on Thursday!), and this Flying 200m Challenge has inspired me to actually work on my 200.
Anyway, in my most recent session I did a 12.4, which is a PB. My goal is 12.0 and I was hoping that my fall & winter of squats would have left me with greater initial gains, but, I'm still encouraged: I'm getting a good feel for how to expend energy and where to accelerate in the flying 200m; I'm feeling much better about pushing a bigger gear (I put on a 98), which probably isn't necessary given the paltry speed I hit, but consistent with my trends of not really being able to do high rpm stuff either early in the season, or while in the wind; and, it was a windy day.
So I figure that with some more race fitness, some additional practice, some more aero gear, and a calm day, I might be able to get down to my target.
Anyway, in my most recent session I did a 12.4, which is a PB. My goal is 12.0 and I was hoping that my fall & winter of squats would have left me with greater initial gains, but, I'm still encouraged: I'm getting a good feel for how to expend energy and where to accelerate in the flying 200m; I'm feeling much better about pushing a bigger gear (I put on a 98), which probably isn't necessary given the paltry speed I hit, but consistent with my trends of not really being able to do high rpm stuff either early in the season, or while in the wind; and, it was a windy day.
So I figure that with some more race fitness, some additional practice, some more aero gear, and a calm day, I might be able to get down to my target.
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Did my first proper flying 200 last night. My home track is 138 so we never do them, but I've done plenty of flying 138s lol
Outdoor wood, minimal wind, 12.9. Actually happy with it since I don't consider myself a sprinter. My goal will be sub 12.5 for the year, but I think Milton will be at least .3 faster on its own.
Out of curiosity, what 'aero' savings do people find? Say a skinsuit, disc, aero(er) helmet, any idea what they save? I figure they would be worth a 10th or two?
Outdoor wood, minimal wind, 12.9. Actually happy with it since I don't consider myself a sprinter. My goal will be sub 12.5 for the year, but I think Milton will be at least .3 faster on its own.
Out of curiosity, what 'aero' savings do people find? Say a skinsuit, disc, aero(er) helmet, any idea what they save? I figure they would be worth a 10th or two?
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Did my first proper flying 200 last night. My home track is 138 so we never do them, but I've done plenty of flying 138s lol
Outdoor wood, minimal wind, 12.9. Actually happy with it since I don't consider myself a sprinter. My goal will be sub 12.5 for the year, but I think Milton will be at least .3 faster on its own.
Out of curiosity, what 'aero' savings do people find? Say a skinsuit, disc, aero(er) helmet, any idea what they save? I figure they would be worth a 10th or two?
Outdoor wood, minimal wind, 12.9. Actually happy with it since I don't consider myself a sprinter. My goal will be sub 12.5 for the year, but I think Milton will be at least .3 faster on its own.
Out of curiosity, what 'aero' savings do people find? Say a skinsuit, disc, aero(er) helmet, any idea what they save? I figure they would be worth a 10th or two?
#172
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I know wheels are one of the lowest benefits, especially a cost:speed point of view. Just wondering if anyone had data on 'training' setup vs 'race setup' on times. There is lots of info out there on the effect based on 40k times/speed, just not sure how it translates on such a short distance.
#173
aka mattio
I would hazard that an aero front wheel would have a noticeable effect.
I did a bunch more flying 200s yesterday, and knocked .2 sex off of my best time - I'm down to 12.2. My goal is 12.0 by the end of the season. A few thoughts:
1. Practice really matters. Finding when and where in the windup to pick up speed is really important.
2. Repetition matters. I had my best on my 4th sprint of the day, even after a 4x 500m workout, a 3 hr ride the day before, and a race night the day before.
3. Like you, gtrob, I'm wondering what I could do if I were totally aero'ed out with disc, air attack, & deeper front wheel. Not to mention if I didn't have a ripping headwind on the homestretch...
4. Feeling fast isn't necessarily fast - I felt way faster on my 2nd than on my first but they were comparable. Sensations are mysterious.
I did a bunch more flying 200s yesterday, and knocked .2 sex off of my best time - I'm down to 12.2. My goal is 12.0 by the end of the season. A few thoughts:
1. Practice really matters. Finding when and where in the windup to pick up speed is really important.
2. Repetition matters. I had my best on my 4th sprint of the day, even after a 4x 500m workout, a 3 hr ride the day before, and a race night the day before.
3. Like you, gtrob, I'm wondering what I could do if I were totally aero'ed out with disc, air attack, & deeper front wheel. Not to mention if I didn't have a ripping headwind on the homestretch...
4. Feeling fast isn't necessarily fast - I felt way faster on my 2nd than on my first but they were comparable. Sensations are mysterious.
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I know wheels are one of the lowest benefits, especially a cost:speed point of view. Just wondering if anyone had data on 'training' setup vs 'race setup' on times. There is lots of info out there on the effect based on 40k times/speed, just not sure how it translates on such a short distance.
I've seen guys who ride a 14" flying 200 buy a world class bike (including Mavic Io and Comete)...and still ride a 14" flying 200.
As queerpunk notes, the flying 200 is a very technical event. There are so many variables that have to all align for one to run the best possible time given an athlete's current level of fitness. Think of it as learning to high jump. It takes practice.
40K tt is a steady state event over a LONG period of time. So it's easy to estimate within a reasonable amount of time as to what benefits may be available. There are just too many variables to quantify what a piece of equipment will do for you in terms of time. Generally people just do the best they can in each particular area: fit, clothing, helmet, wheels, gearing, windup, etc... and let it all come together.
Contrary to popular belief, the Flying 200M must be practiced if you expect to do your best at it.
Gtrob, given that you did your first proper flying 200M this week, you'll get faster just by doing more of them...like in the same training session.
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Totally agree. I found close to a second off my flying 138 time over the winter and account 80% of that to just technique. I find the 200 track a lot easier anyway, as turn 1 isn't so 'violent' when you turn in and can actually put power through the corner.
Maybe I should aim for 11.9 so I can keep up with the gorillas on this forum
Maybe I should aim for 11.9 so I can keep up with the gorillas on this forum