Hey, I admire those beautiful Rivendells just like the next guy. But I live near Philadelphia. You don't see many such bikes in the city. The theme of this forum is commuting, after all. My first instinct is always to be riding a bike that "looks" cheap. I don't especially want people lining up to praise my custom machine. I recently bought an old Bridgestone MB4 and have set it up for commuting. It rides fine and cost me a fraction of what a new Riv. would have. Have you noticed that nowhere in Rivendell's ads is there a pic of somebody riding one of their bikes in an urban setting? Its all in the hills and dales of California [I assume] Yes they make beautiful bikes which I drool over. Then I get on my solid clunker and go to town minus the high anxiety that would accompany me on a Rivendell.