Originally Posted by
CptjohnC
No argument that visibility in many modern vehicles is a problem, though not unique by any means to SUVs (feel free to take my conventional station wagon for a spin if you want to experience REALLY poor visibility!) But you are absolutely correct regarding the height problem of SUVs contributing to them not seeing smaller vehicles (including bikes... and small cars).
I'd personally like to see some more detailed regulation on blind spots in all vehicles. If more and more bikes and smaller electric and hybrid cars are going to be sharing the road with them, it's more vital that they have good visibility.
I'm more than willing to believe the stats on pickup truck fatalities, though I wonder -- does this include single vehicle accidents (which, if memory serves, are disproportionaly represented in motor vehicle fatalities, esp. among those same young males)? Are they disproportionately represented in pedestrian and bicycle fatalities? perhaps they are... though I bet there's very limited reliable statistical evidence.
Yes, the numbers I was reading were for ALL fatalities (including single vehicle accidents and fatalities in other vehicles involved in an accident with them). Most of the highest fatality vehicles were popular pickups (Dodge, Chevy, and Ford), so it seems that it's a consistent phenomenon. It didn't break it out as far as pedestrian and bicyclist deaths, and as you say, I would imagine that that is harder to study due to lower numbers and poorer quality government data collection than for motor vehicles.
Regardless: pickups start with a major disadvantage in any statistical battle regarding fatalities. First off, they are extremely plentiful (two of the top 5 best selling vehicles in the US remain full size pickups... despite a sharp decline, they remain on top. The #1 ford outsold the best selling conventional passenger car by over 100,000 units, which is a decline from when they outsold the best selling car by better than two to one.) So sheer numbers would seem to make the over-involvement of pickup trucks, as a segment, a foregone conclusion -- sure, there are lots more cars, overall, but not cars falling into any one segment.
They are less safe by design (and as a result of less safety regulation in the US), often modified by folks who don't really consider the consequences of those large tires, 4 inch lifts, extraneous accessories, etc..., and as you mention driven by the worst demographic. They are also massive, and the laws of physics will not be denied. This would be pretty significant in terms of the likelihood of a fatality in a multi-vehicle crash, as well as contributing to the frequency of single vehicle crashes.
Also they are driven more often in rural areas, which means they get driven for more miles and at higher speeds over roads that are often poorly maintained in comparison to urban roads (location dependent).
I just get annoyed when people make generalized comments about drivers based solely on their choice of vehicle. While many use these as status items, or for ridiculous reasons (4 my dog license plates make me crazy), many are driven with reasonable forethought and due cause.
Yes, I don't think it's reasonable to generalize about the behavior of ALL drivers of any vehicle type. But statistical information is not totally meaningless, either. It suggests that various factors are contributing to safety problems for some types of vehicles more than for others, and driver behavior is often one of those factors. Compare any pickup or SUV's total fatality rates with say, the Toyota Camry, and the Camry has a much lower rate. This isn't really because the Camry is intrinsically safer, although it certainly is less likely to kill other people should it hit them due to the construction and lower weight. It's in large part because of who drives them vs. who drives the pickups. Driver behavior is still a huge factor, and it shouldn't be if we were actually training people to drive properly and holding them accountable for their actions. For example, an SUV or pickup just inherently has worse side and rear visibility. So the driver response to that should be to be extra cautious about the possibility of people or cars being in their blind spots. If there is a difference in safety factors caused by your vehicle type, your driving behavior should compensate for that just like you wouldn't "drive" a bicycle in the same way you would drive a car.