Originally Posted by
buzzman
You're right you've been very civil and I appreciate it. I apologize for my sarcasm- sometimes it's irresistible.
We all snipe occasionally. Accepted and forgotten.
Now you've said how outrageous it is for people to come into a thread and claim "My helmet saved my life!" Do you really think it's any less outrageous a claim that you are actually "saving lives" by telling people their helmet might not do them any good?
Well, I
did say "possibly", and have said in the past "at best", and I do believe there are scenarios that this
can be life-saving, but fair enough; it was a touch of hyperbole.
And if we require evidence and proof that ia helmet saved their life where is the proof for your claim?
Studies have been posted about risk compensation, and I stand by that this
does occur to an extent, but am willing to admit I don't know how much.
If I tell someone that if a car hits them head on at 40 mph or if they hit a brick wall after screaming downhill at 35 mph their helmet may not save them I wouldn't expect them to say, "Thank God you told me! 'Cause that's exactly what I was planning to do now that I have a bike helmet." Again what difference will it make in telling them? How will it be reflected in their behavior?
In that extreme, likely no, I wouldn't expect people to know; I'd also note I'm not sure that people are consciously making the choice to engage in riskier behavior "knowing" that a helmet will save their life. I think what most of us advancing this point are saying (and, I believe, what most studies point to) is that people subconsciously factor this in to their decision making. As I said, whether or not you know it, you are probably more likely to engage in riskier behavior if you're wearing a device that is supposed to save your life in a catastrophic accident. Closetbiker has posted some of these studies in the past. I agree they aren't concrete in all cases, but it's a starting point, and surely enough to maybe make us stop and think if perhaps there's something to it.
This has been asserted in cars as well; with the advent of airbags, seatbelts, etc, people are more willing to drive faster and more dangerously (probably not purposefully), since they perceive it as more "safe". The risk vs reward assessment changes; the risk (death) is seemingly reduced, while keeping the same reward. That skews the decision. We make these decisions every day so often that we are mostly unaware when we make them. From everything to crossing the street, deciding whether you can make that yellow light, etc; you're
always making these choices, whether or not you know it. Constantly and subconsciously assessing our situation is a good piece of evolution that has helped us survive this long.
EDIT: There was actually an article in the recent National Geographic: How Teens' Brains Work article that is somewhat applicable, and I'll see if I can dig it up (or at least post the relevant text). The gist was that the reason teens act recklessly is because their risk/reward assessment is different at that age, in this case the opposite of what we're talking about; it's not that teens don't gauge risk correctly, in fact they do so quite well. The problem is they put greater value on reward than adults do, which skews their decision and makes them more likely to engage in riskier behavior, completely subconsciously (they go on to explain that this is an evolutionary feature, not a bug, and why, but that's beyond the scope of this thread and not relevant to the point at hand). Can you see how this might apply to other skews in that decision-making process?
Do you think those guys in the video link I posted read reams of statistical data and pages of arguments in BF's before they chose to put on a helmet? Or do you think they just looked at the circumstances, looked at the helmet, applied what they knew from their own experience and made a decision as to whether to wear a helmet or not?
I don't know, but I don't think it's very improbable that a lot of them are under the prevailing impression that helmets save lives, and so decided to wear one thinking it will do so (at the very least sometimes). Perhaps some of them are aware they don't and wear them anyway (I would, in that case), perhaps some would decide not to do it at all, perhaps some would be a little more conservative. Who's to say? The problem is, we don't know if they don't know.
Bicycle helmets are made of plastic and foam. These are materials that most of us are very familiar with- we are pretty aware of their limitations. We put the helmet on our heads and I think most of us are aware that they're not going to keep us from a broken arm or leg or internal injuries. And for the few who can't grasp those simple concepts would be just as stupid without a helmet as they are with one.
I think they are aware of
those limitations, yes; my experience has shown me most people are not aware of their limitations in protecting the head. Not that I blame them, I wasn't either.