In my experience (group rides in the va beach area) the advertised speeds were the max speeds for the group over flat ground. It's a lot more clear to say this ride is xxmph MAX on flat ground. Obviously climbs will be slower and downhills faster but with the group rolling on flat ground everyone sticks to the max speed.

The problem with the peach ride wasnt just the average speed and piss poor planning. My major issue was the fact that it was advertised as no drop. That doesn't mean "ehh they're close enough" it also doesn't mean "well there's marks in the road so we'll leave them to find their own way back" mind you we were still 1e miles away from the car when tje ride leader abandoned us. Also note that his "clear" road markings were anything but and at one point the whole group turned the wrong way including the ride leader.

The other issue was the friggin attitude given to the slower riders. At one point I offered to repair a flat and got yelled at "YOU JUST KEEP RIDING" at which point I responded something that I can't really remembered but I didn't get yelled at again.

As for someone who wasn't there telling Neeil it was his negative attitude that caused it, neil didn't say a word before/during the ride to deserve that treatment. It's only been since this ride that he's made comments, and rightly so to some extent.

My 2 cents