Ok, I'm sorry, I guess I probably overstated what I mean by "crazy" geometry. I am into track frames and pursuit style frames. I guess when I think crazy, I think commuting on something like a Bianchi Pista which is taller than it is long. Most of my friends think I'm crazy when I tell them I commuted 25 miles each way on that bike. Then again, most people tell me I'm crazy when I do a 500 mile day on my Ducati 749. I personally think if you have the physical and mental stamina for aggressive geometry, then the payoff in control and speed far outweigh the discomfort. Then again, I'm only 30, so ask me the same question in 20 years and I might say something different.

I'm thinking MassiveD is having a massive point (sorry) in this last post. Honestly, my first choice was to do brazed stainless. I personally have been wanting to avoid paint mainly because I think there are serious sustainability issues that you run into, and honestly, there is something that feels right about being able to offer a frame that i built up from tube, without having to send someone to another shop to "finish" it off. After asking the guys at UBI about doing stainless in their class and getting a definitive "no", I figured I'd look into Ti/TIG.

So what if I went the steel/braze route, I'm certainly convinced just in torch costs alone I'm saving thousands. How many frames would I be putting out before I tried my hand at brazing stainless? The UBI folks basically said they don't teach stainless because it's harder and I couldn't get up my skills fast enough. How much truth is in this?

Really I just want to make "affordable" paint-less frames to local people who are into bikes and not racing or jumping off dirt mounds.