Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no

10 ellipses in one post has to be some kind of record.

as to the idiotic drivers being idiots - yep, there is not much you can do about those. but, that doesn't mean that other drivers can't be persuaded to dislike cyclists by the very visible, inconsiderate, and illegal actions of some cyclists. a group of 100 riders is impossible to pass on typical 2 lane roads. add to the mix the group running through red lights en masse, and it is a complete nightmare for even the most reasonable driver. i don't care if they are doing it for race training, it is stupid and makes all of us look bad.