You coulsd have saved me three pages of reading if you just said that in post 2.

I have ridden an early morning weekend ride once, where I encountered a driver who was under the influence. Luckily, I came up on him, and recognized his erratic behavior, swerving, etc. I backed off and took another route. What if he had run the red light at an intersection and plowed into a large group illegally crossing? Sure, most of the drivers in the areas may be okay with the groups running the lights, but I will never be okay with risking my life over it and rolling the dice against that one driver we never think to encounter.

Riding is a passion & a hobby of mine, not a career. It does not support my family or bring me any economic gain. With that being said, I stop at all stop signs, red lights, etc. when riding solo or with a group. I can't recall ever being in a group that ran a red light or a stop sign. Sure, there are splits at times, but the "stopped" group just has to work harder to catch back up. I always leave my house telling myself I will do everything in my power to come back safely. Obeying traffic laws is a must for me. But hey, that's just me.

To play devil's advocate, the car 6 or 7 back may miss the light and have to wait an extra cycle.

Also, at least in some places, you are not allowed to be in the intersection when the light is red. The truck would be ticketed. In just a few states you can't even enter on yellow. From that perspective the train of bicycles moving through the red light would be illegal, whether or not you viewed them as a single vehicle.

On this ride if the light is red we stop, We won't simply disregard the red light. If 3/4 of the group is through everyone continues. The police patrol the area and know about the ride as well as the locals. If the road has 3 lanes we take a lane per the police. They allow us to take a lane, and do correct us if we do not. Also the traffic in the area is very light on weekend mornings. People in the neighborhood are very supportive.

So is precognition a requirement for driving in those states? How is the driver/cyclist supposed to know that the green light he's approaching is about to switch to yellow just before he crosses the stop line and enters the intersection. Some vehicle codes indicate that yellow is an indication to stop if possible but I'd be very surprised if any had a blanket prohibition on entering an intersection on a yellow light.

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Citation needed.

No.

I'd suspect that even in those states that allegedly prohibit it, the point (and how the law is enforced, if it is enforced) is prohibiting people from entering the intersection when it's definitely yellow (that is, when they could have chosen to stop). A fair number of drivers accelerate to go through the yellow. It seems clear that the (alleged) law is intended to discourage that.

I don't think so

It goes along with the restrictive yellow rule, where there is a violation if the signal is red before you exit the intersection.

Obviously, not EVERY entry on yellow is a violation.

If someone don't know what a stale yellow is, or a stale green, he needs to be slowing down for every intersection no matter what and preparing to stop. It's an accident waiting to happen.

You are now saying something different.

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Since you know the states, it should be easy for you to provide a citation. If you don't know the states, then you are just blowing smoke.

In restrictive yellow states you have to stop if possible - under the penumbra of "caution" in the statutes. If it turns red, a definite violation (I said this before, not different.)

Rushing into the yellow light falls under the discretion of the officer, and judge of course. People are often ticketed for this is Dallas TX for example. Oregon is another example.

You first said "can't even enter yellow" (no qualification) and then subsequently added additional qualifications/requirements where "yellow" was not sufficient: "when it turns red" (indeed, this could include entering when green), "unless it's not possible", and "officer's discretion".

It's different because just "yellow" is sufficient in the "In just a few states you can't even enter on yellow" case and, in the second cases, some other condition must be met ("yellow" is not sufficient).

So, these are not states where "you can't even enter on yellow" because you've added another requirement/qualification and clearly indicate that there are conditions when you can enter the yellow!

Again, citation needed. I suspect that no state has a law that states that you can't ever enter the yellow.

That must be the highest RPM-to-wheel-value ratio on any ride, anywhere. And check out the skilz of no-hands guy at 5:27.

But I digress; I didn’t watch every minute of the video, but it wasn’t as bad as I expected after reading through some of the comments. The group seemed to have chosen a time when traffic was light and seemed pretty disciplined about staying in one lane of multi-lane roads. It’s also heartening to see so many folks taking up cycling and reaping the fitness benefits of it.

I do, however, agree with the comments about running lights and blocking intersections. I also think that this group ought to be broken into sub-groups for the benefit of traffic. The group is so large that 90% of the folks are simply getting pulled along at minimal effort, so it’s an impediment to the cyclists, too.

Seemed more like a parade than anything bike related. btw, I do stop my car for parades though there is usually police ******* & permits required.

njkayaker, I don't much go in for the silly back and forth arguing. Different ideas, additional knowledge, other perspectives, fine but don't take it personally that I don't respond to this kind of thing.

I'll take that to mean that the following isn't correct.

??? You aren't really allowed to plow into other people even if what the other people are doing is illegal.

This +1000

the orange county and central park tickets are counter examples to your proposed "if people are so mad, they should call the cops" statement. clearly, in these instances, law enforcement has gotten involved, and the involvement was very likely induced by reports from irate citizens. at least one of the orange county ticket runs was when a group ride's first riders stopped at a stop sign, and then the rest of the group rolled through acting as a single giant vehicle. it wasn't one cop sitting and watching. there were multiple cops there ready to ticket multiple riders. in another group ride, police motorcycles followed the ride for pretty much the duration (~2 hours) looking for run stop signs/red lights and had cars waiting at intersections in case there were violations. sounds like a pretty concerted effort to me.

Agreed, and I wasn't suggesting or recommending doing that. But few would regard a car entering an intersection on a green light as "plowing into" the intersection. Most would consider the group of bikers running a red as plowing into the intersection. I've seen enough drivers hanging lefts across intersections with a green light to know that they don't consider anything smaller than a car to be an impediment to their progress. In other words you are risking your life running a red on a bike. No one considers 100 bikers to suddenly become some Borg-like vehicle that elevates itself to the point of being a single vehicle so this talk of the group leader entering or leaving an intersection on a yellow light is meaningless if all cyclists don't do the same. Each cyclist that enters the intersection on a red is breaking the law and is risking their lives.

Like the Doral ride I often go out weekend morning along A1A and there are multiple groups of 50+ or even 100+ that form either form starting or picking up riders. Almost everyone in these groups are great. The group sticks to the law as much as possible. Groups stop at lights and if they get broken they will slow down to rejoin in a mile or so. We are only allowed 2 riders side by side and often this makes cars think we are in their way and every so ofter a car tries to speed past but has to slam their brakes before they hit oncomming traffic. The cops usually get these guys as they are out all along during the morning hours to protect the cyclists (usually ride by 6-8 in 40-50 mile rides). The groups go almost the speed limit anyways so they really have to be speeding to get past. I don't get why these people are suprised they can't go 50+mph in a 30mph zone with tons of beach access crossings where they need to yield to pedestrians and get so frustrated at 8am on a weekend. They need to chill out or enjoy their tickets.

TS, you just take it up to 550w beforemthey get to you for a few miles and see if anybody can hold your wheel.