I had to laugh with you tsl, my brother! I have done the same thing. I forget the conditions because I'm no slower on ice than without. The studded tires are quite effective. Then I go down to the ground. When I decided to go studded I went around a corner and forgot the usual black ice from the previous day's melt. Down I went and that night I made up some pop rivet studs for my Chinamart mountain bike. (W/Kendas) Then I started saving for a better China made Trek 520.