Originally Posted by John E

You are generalizing, but I concur w/ your main point.

I like "critical manners" rides, in which participants are expected to follow traffic laws and to ride courteously, obstructing traffic only as necessary for their own safety (e.g., taking a lane). However, there is something about a mob scene which tends to bring out the worst in people, and this is one reason I tend to avoid large group rides other than those which tend to spread people out, such as the Los Angeles Grand Tour double century.