No one is disputing physics or the most efficient design based on various requirements. What I was disputing was your arrogant, boorish and patronizing remarks about a bike frame (as well as towards people who like it) that you deemed "structurally incompetent arts-fartsy things" that can only be appreciated by those "who don't know anything about structural design and analysis" when frames such as the one in question are sound in execution. Keep blabbing but it won't change the fact that the simple frames that you don't like do actually work in the real world.