Originally Posted by
veloham
...I did notice you gave the Fr. Belga model name as Franco Belga, that's that solved at least. Maybe something to do with the Circuit Franco Belge race?
Thanks for the kudos... Circuit Franco-Belge Race dated back to 1924. It was a late season race and until recently it took place in the border regions between France and Belgium. The race history is sketchy. It was an amateur race for a while and changed names several times during the past 6-7 years.
Fr. Belga or Franco-Belga was the Italian verbiage... The French used the Franco-Belge name. The race name had more meaning in the 1960's and early 70's especially in northwest Europe so it was used on a number of different cycling products including the type of bends on bars.
Some bar bends were named after racers from the 1930's to the 60's: e.g. Maes and Coppi bends!
Originally Posted by
veloham
What you say about the marketing material makes sense too, and may also explain why the measurements of neither of my bars match any of those in the 66 or 74 Cyclo-Pedia (especially given the 2 catalogues are so similar 8 years apart - only the drop on the Bobet gets longer - there's a joke there somewhere, so if they were both accurate you'd expect the years in between to all be similar too).
Printing plates for graphics were the most expensive part of offset printing. Photographs or drawings had to be converted into a black and white negative format that could be used to produce an etched metal plate which then could be used in a printing press.... (there were a number of different processes but you get the idea).
Those plates were used over and over for years that's why you don't see a lot of changes or updates. (remember, the French exceeded the Brits in frugality)
Also, the opperant phrase was:
Les spécifications sont sujettes à modification sans préavis
Le specifiche sono soggette a modifiche senza preavviso
Specifications subject to change without notice!
That meant
caveat emptor!
Originally Posted by
veloham
Particularly confusing that the reach of my bars is so much shorter than those shown in the catalogues. I would guess my Grand Prix bars are a Gimondi bend, they are a bit more track like in the way the tops turn quite quickly and the ramps are a bit steeper and the Gimondi measurements aren't listed at least.
Bicycle handlebars were not high precision components! Most handlebars were bent in fixtures using manually operated levers. This left a lot of wiggle room for variations in dimensions!
This site shows various tube bending fixtures:
http://www.tubeforming.com/Dedicated_Tube_Benders.html
A few years ago I measured
all of the bars that I had in my Bat Cave stash plus a bunch of the bars that I liked or didn't like on the bikes that I ride. (N=40+)
I measured the widths of the bars at the widest points across the tops and the across the drops (not center to center) plus the forward reach and the distance from the bar tops to the drops - the lengths of the drops too.
None were sized to catalog specs! They included 3TTT, Cinelli, ITM, Specialized (made by Nitto), SR and Nitto bars. The dimensions even varied between bars of the same models and stamped sizes! Bars stamped 42cm were as narrow as 40.5cm across the tops!
Many bars made during the 1960's and early 70's had very long reaches (also called "throws"). Some old French alloy bars have reaches, as long as 150mm!
The reach on 3TTT bars were generally shorter than most other brands of classic bars.
Another thing, very few of the bars that I measured were round in the center area. It could be the result of having been clamped in a stem or just not being accurately made.
Something else to note, back in the day, many bars used with barcon shifters had 1" to 1 1/2" cut off the drops for knee clearance!
I've never seen the "INSERT TO LINE" stamped into any 3TTT stem before the late 70's. You may have a stem that was made for Raleigh and they requested that stamped into the quill.
I rode "on the drops" most of the time from 1964 until the early 80's. I did mostly off road riding from the late 70's until 2006 when I started riding on the road again.
I used wide MTB bars on my lugged 531, 700c off road bike. I have wide shoulders and I noticed that when I started riding my road bikes again, the bars were too narrow!
With my arms held straight out and my palms facing inward the distance between them is about 46cm! I can ride 42cm to 46cm bars with 44cm over the outside width at the tops is most comfortable. My hand are mostly on the flats at the levers or on the hoods. I like short reach bars and short top tubes because I have a short bull neck.
@
SJX426 You HAD a beautiful bike! That was one of the best looking aqua blue Le Champions I'd seen.
Originally Posted by
veloham
Is it bad form to put comments on velo-base if you think something has been mis-classified? I find it a bit difficult without out-and-out proof. Should I just ask myself if it really matters? Maybe just something like "I've seen these on an all original 1972 Motobecane so must be earlier"
Keep in mind, many of the velo-base.com posts are anecdotal.... The listmaster does a pretty good job of keeping things accurate but...
There are several places for comments below the main entries on the velo-base web site. I don't post comments unless I KNOW that the info is accurate and I hesitate to sound negative in any of my comments.
BTW, do you wear an anorak?
verktyg
Chas.