All I want from a touring bike is that it can be thrown into a box or bag without too much thought. Packed up the bikes today. Straight into a box, wheels jammed along side the frame. I padded the outer ends of the axles so they don't tear through the boxes. Rack, seat whatever gets dumped in the box. If it can't survive I don't want it. Also needs to survive being dropped off a guard rail fully loaded.