Originally Posted by
Mr IGH
- Proper spoke for the application.
Yep. And in many cases, the proper spoke for the application is a triple butted one.
Originally Posted by
Mr IGH
- Lightweight rims (sub 500gm) don't require anything beyond 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes.
The rim has almost zero to do with the strength of the wheel.
Originally Posted by
Mr IGH
- A 32 spoke wheel with sub 500gm rim built properly will reach end-of-life from rim failure, not spoke breakage. This is esp true with today's 130mm/135mm hubs with less dish than BITD 120mm 6-speed freewheel hubs.
It is relatively easy to swap out a worn out or damaged rim...depending on the severity of the damage...and continue using a wheel. The spokes can out last many rims. Generally, that doesn't happen because the ERD of rims is far from standard so finding a rim with the same ERD is close to impossible. It can be done, and I have done it, but doing so requires lots of research.
Originally Posted by
Mr IGH
- Using heavier 2.3mm butts at the bend instead of 2.0mm is to compensate for poor wheel building skills, not to add any actual advantage for properly designed and properly build wheels.
The 2.3mm spokes aren't used to compensate for poor wheel building skills...although they can offer some help in that area. They compensate for heavier load and demands for strength when it comes to wheel usage. Go read the Wheel Fanatyk article.
Originally Posted by
Mr IGH
- DT 2.3/1.8/2.0 spokes don't offer any advantage over standard 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes
Yes. Yes, they do. Some people just can see that they do.
Originally Posted by
Mr IGH
- DT doesn't use 2.3/1.8/2.0 spokes on any of their premade wheels and none of them have more than 28 spokes (those are MTB wheelsets, road wheelsets are 24 spoke for disc, 20/16 for road)....
Mores the pity. But DT is in the business of selling wheels. Why build something that is stronger and lasts longer if you don't have to. On the other hand, they could maybe sell more wheels if they made lighter wheels with lighter rims and (very slightly) heavier, stronger spokes.
Originally Posted by
Mr IGH
- The canard about double butted spokes relieving stress at the bend and adding to spoke life doesn't follow the simplest engineering principals known to successful 1st year engineering students....
Jobst Brandt, an engineer by training and profession would disagree. From "The Bicycle Wheel":
...The bridging effect of a rigid rim lengthens the region over which the load is distributed, and a greater number of spokes means that there will be more of them in this region to carry the load. Swaged spokes (also known as butted spokes) take up these loads in their slender midsection. This reduces stress in their threads and elbows and extends fatigue life.
I think I'll take his advice over yours.
Originally Posted by
Mr IGH
- No one has ever demonstrated the "DB spokes make the wheel stronger" theory with computer simulations either....
- The reason why no one has demonstrated the theory with computer simulation it is because it's false....
So says you. The rest of us will probably continue to follow the delusions of a "real" engineer. Of course some of us also have real world experience with double butted and triple butted spokes that demonstrates that your ideas that single butted spokes are stronger are equally false.