Originally Posted by
Garthr
I prefer frames with a certain front center distance, at least 66cm for example. That makes the majority of ready made frames too short/small. As noted, the seat tube only matters if I'm after a certain sloping or level top tube.
Of all the frame photos I see posted here I don't see any that on their own, without the rider, look radically out of proportion. Of course bikes don't ride themselves though. In contrast, I've seen some "inches above the saddle" on many Rivendell's though.
For example here, quite high bars and a too short for me front center. A no go for me on both accounts. (Not my bike, a stock Rivendell photo as an example). Others may find it perfect.
I've ridden my custom Franklin road bike with bars that placed my hands a couple of inches above the saddle height like the bike above. That steering/handling is notably unnerving being that high. Conversely the lower I go, with drop bars well below saddle height, the same frame steers/handles beautifully, intuitively.
To help me, and maybe others, understand, could you explain your working definition of 'front center'? I'm trying to picture it.
A few posts above, I posted a picture of this bike:
I'm starting to put together pieces of the puzzle. I took some measurements, and compared them to my other bikes. For the above bike: The seat tube is 20.5" or 52cm. Here's where it gets interesting. The top tube is a solid 21.5", or almost 55cm. When measuring a bunch of other bikes in my garage for top tube length, most are right around 22" on the dot, like the Treks, the PX-10, the Paramount...the bikes that I consider a 'great fit'. The longest top tubes I measured was 22.25", which were found on the Ironman and Super Course. I had a few other bikes in the garage that had about the same 21.5" top tube, namely the PXN-10 (in size 54cm) and the Trek Multitrack 950...which I consider a GREAT fitting and riding bike.
Then I started measuring overall wheelbase, and this bike is right around 40.6". Most of the other bikes I measured were right around there, or actually less. It sort of makes sense, given that this is bike geared towards touring, so I imagine it was designed with a longer wheelbase. I have less toe overlap on this bike than I do the IM.
The thing I'd like to play around with on this bike would be the stem. Not only is it really high, but it is actually really short as well. I wonder how a Technomic would do on it - something a little more like a 70-80mm stem, and perhaps a little lower. I'd be curious about how that may affect body position, and ride stability. Also, it seems like hooded levers can make a huge impact on fit as well, with older levers reducing the overall height of the hoods in relation to the saddle, compared to modern levers, which come straight out at the start of the curve down of the handlebars.
Also, I can totally understand what [MENTION=425004]merziac[/MENTION] is saying about how he was describing the fit of a smaller bike with longer seat posts and stems, thanks for explaining that. It would seem to be magnified on frames on the much larger end of the spectrum, where tubing flex (whether frame or components) come very much into play.
With this bike above, it seems like we are in the ballpark. The biggest issues seem to be the goofy look of the high bars and weird stem, and therefore also the potential bar position being closer to the rider and affecting this 'front loading' or 'front center' measurement. It appears as though we may not be as 'front loaded' as other bikes due to the upright position caused by the stem, which is actually the inverse of what one might think a 'too small' frame would produce, so now I'm
really curious to see what a different stem would do.