Okay, talk to me about riding 'too small' bikes: a geometry discussion!
#176
Sunshine
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As is in the picture, the setup looks pretty normal/common/standard. The stem is a bit high which could indicate the frame is too small, but that can just as easily indicate the rider needs a slightly more upright position for comfort(which you confirm with the stem length comment).
#177
Sunshine
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Here the Torpado, this one just works good. Today I would probably use a Nitto stem that runs taller than the 3ttt. This came together about five years ago. The gearing is tight for my location so I keep it like this when I want to do a speed ride of steady risers.
The Torpado is going to get some changes with a new saddle and barwrap this spring most likely. I'll probably rotate the bars up to help me back some then.
The Torpado is going to get some changes with a new saddle and barwrap this spring most likely. I'll probably rotate the bars up to help me back some then.
You mention you would use a taller stem now compared to the one in the pic, but even if that puts the bars and levers 2cm higher, that wouldnt scream 'bike is too small!!' to me.
Anyways, if you do adjust things this spring, perhaps a bar with a modern bend would be best. You wont have to rotate the bars upwards with a modern compact bend shaped bar. Bonus- you could still use the drops with the modern compact bend shape.
#178
cowboy, steel horse, etc
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How is this bike too small for you? The saddle doesnt look too high and you mention the stem should be shorter which makes it seem like the bike is too large for you(at least in top tube length).
As is in the picture, the setup looks pretty normal/common/standard. The stem is a bit high which could indicate the frame is too small, but that can just as easily indicate the rider needs a slightly more upright position for comfort(which you confirm with the stem length comment).
As is in the picture, the setup looks pretty normal/common/standard. The stem is a bit high which could indicate the frame is too small, but that can just as easily indicate the rider needs a slightly more upright position for comfort(which you confirm with the stem length comment).
Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 01-03-24 at 12:21 PM.
#179
Making up the numbers
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I shared these before but here are comments on my 53cm Fuji Opus III that is in the too small category. It is also the only bike I don't have the saddle set up to my normal 29.9" above the BB with 8 3/8" setback.
"Well, I finally got around to actually gluing up the new tubulars to the 40 year old rims about a month ago. Then for whatever reason other than a short test ride on the new setup I hadn't taken this out. With plans for tomorrow of tackling the local HC category climb I decided to take the Opus III out this morning for a short and easy ride of around 10 miles or so. But, this little beauty felt so good with the new setup, fast, responsive, and smooth. So instead I stayed out for 52 wonderful, carefree miles. Didn't worry about pace or anything just enjoyed the ride. I did notice for most of the ride that my speed was up higher than I expected for the perceived effort I was giving it. I was also surprised at how well it just glided up the hills and such. Even set some of my better times on some hilly sections late in the ride. Had a moment of secret pleasure as I blew by another rider on a modern C.F bike on the last real hill of the ride. I smiled to myself as I crested in front of him, shifter both the front and back with one hand and then blasted away on the descent. Then a few miles later the legs said, "F' you" on the last little incline. That's about when I realized this was too many miles with just 3 cups of coffee and a danish for breakfast, LOL! Fortunately the final few miles had me riding a tailwind where I was able to easily take it back up over 30 mph for about 1 mile of this section, probably never went slower than 24 mph over the final three miles. These ol' Superbe hubs are smooth rolling for sure. The only noise on the whole ride was the freewheel. When I serviced it I did the best I could on it without being able to open it up completely but it does run a little noisy. Another thing I noted on the ride was the smoothness of the front end, more so than normal. I ride this same basic route daily so know all the rough sections where I instinctively unweight my hands on the handlebars to avoid the jolts. Today I noticed I was doing that as usual but the the bike was smoothly sailing over these sections, pretty cool! Very happy that I finally sourced some proper tubulars for this one."
"Took it out this morning for what was supposed to just be a little cruising ride. Cool outside with super messy roads from 70 mph winds last time ripping everything to shreds. Roads and the bike path were covered with all sort of debris as well as still being a bit wet in a lot of spots. Like I said, supposed to just be an easy cruise today so I didn't even bother to put on a helmet. Needless to say, early into the 35 mile ride the ol' Opus refused to just idle along and I found myself flying like normal. Only time I reeled it in was one flat area over in Huntsville were the speed snuck above 27 mph. I've had to many head injures to be that stupid so instead of dropping a gear and going for more I slowed back down. But man this thing is so responsive yet totally comfortable. And with all the crap on the roads I was carving in and out of the mess the whole ride. The handling is so freaking sharp and precise. Credit to the Veloflex Roubaix tubulars. I ran through a lot of crap today with no issues at all. Nobody, and I mean, nobody was on as beautiful of a bike as me today. 36 years old with 40 year old shoes and she still turns my head. Man what a bike!"
"Well, I finally got around to actually gluing up the new tubulars to the 40 year old rims about a month ago. Then for whatever reason other than a short test ride on the new setup I hadn't taken this out. With plans for tomorrow of tackling the local HC category climb I decided to take the Opus III out this morning for a short and easy ride of around 10 miles or so. But, this little beauty felt so good with the new setup, fast, responsive, and smooth. So instead I stayed out for 52 wonderful, carefree miles. Didn't worry about pace or anything just enjoyed the ride. I did notice for most of the ride that my speed was up higher than I expected for the perceived effort I was giving it. I was also surprised at how well it just glided up the hills and such. Even set some of my better times on some hilly sections late in the ride. Had a moment of secret pleasure as I blew by another rider on a modern C.F bike on the last real hill of the ride. I smiled to myself as I crested in front of him, shifter both the front and back with one hand and then blasted away on the descent. Then a few miles later the legs said, "F' you" on the last little incline. That's about when I realized this was too many miles with just 3 cups of coffee and a danish for breakfast, LOL! Fortunately the final few miles had me riding a tailwind where I was able to easily take it back up over 30 mph for about 1 mile of this section, probably never went slower than 24 mph over the final three miles. These ol' Superbe hubs are smooth rolling for sure. The only noise on the whole ride was the freewheel. When I serviced it I did the best I could on it without being able to open it up completely but it does run a little noisy. Another thing I noted on the ride was the smoothness of the front end, more so than normal. I ride this same basic route daily so know all the rough sections where I instinctively unweight my hands on the handlebars to avoid the jolts. Today I noticed I was doing that as usual but the the bike was smoothly sailing over these sections, pretty cool! Very happy that I finally sourced some proper tubulars for this one."
"Took it out this morning for what was supposed to just be a little cruising ride. Cool outside with super messy roads from 70 mph winds last time ripping everything to shreds. Roads and the bike path were covered with all sort of debris as well as still being a bit wet in a lot of spots. Like I said, supposed to just be an easy cruise today so I didn't even bother to put on a helmet. Needless to say, early into the 35 mile ride the ol' Opus refused to just idle along and I found myself flying like normal. Only time I reeled it in was one flat area over in Huntsville were the speed snuck above 27 mph. I've had to many head injures to be that stupid so instead of dropping a gear and going for more I slowed back down. But man this thing is so responsive yet totally comfortable. And with all the crap on the roads I was carving in and out of the mess the whole ride. The handling is so freaking sharp and precise. Credit to the Veloflex Roubaix tubulars. I ran through a lot of crap today with no issues at all. Nobody, and I mean, nobody was on as beautiful of a bike as me today. 36 years old with 40 year old shoes and she still turns my head. Man what a bike!"
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Nothing quite says wall hanger like drillium toe straps
Nothing quite says wall hanger like drillium toe straps
#180
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I'm also paging campfire as his Bianchi Grizzly is setup the same way - small frame, higher seatpost and stem -
If anyone else rides a bike in this configuration, with a small frame/shorter top tube, and higher saddle and stem, I'd be interested in your thoughts.
If anyone else rides a bike in this configuration, with a small frame/shorter top tube, and higher saddle and stem, I'd be interested in your thoughts.
I completely missed this thread until today. Frame configuration on the Raleigh (not a Bianchi) was strictly pragmatic. After a decade or so of riding various hybrid/MTB bikes I wanted to have an 80s touring bike again. This one popped up with the brifter conversion, which I wanted (and which saved me from messing with the 4.5mm bolt headache on the downtube). On my test ride the fit seemed workable. After ~1200 miles on this bike, I really like it. I've made one fitment adjustment since this picture was taken, shifting the seat & bars slightly rearward. This relieved shoulder strain on the 50-80 mile rides that this bike sees. It does have a slight bit of toe strike on the front fender, so it's not QUITE perfect. But in practice this rarely happens.
My other commuter bike is a 54cm Schwinn Crosscut. It has less seat extension, but still probably more than this thread seems to want. Not coincidentally, the crank-seat height is identical between the bikes. While I haven't measured the reach, the bikes feel as similar as can be expected between a drop bar and a "Glen bar." I'll happily ride all day long on either of these bikes.
Could I ride a larger frame? Sure. I don't have measurements, but old pictures show my 1985 Schwinn Traveler had a significantly larger frame. I'd guess at least 60cm. That bike fit well without requiring an extended seatpost or stem. Would that be better? Perhaps. I wouldn't choose 54cm if buying a new bike. But after this summer's bike crash, the Raleigh has acquired sentimental value. I'm in no hurry to replace it, even if the "right" size of frame became available.
Last edited by campfire; 01-15-24 at 01:10 PM.
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#181
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Two more notes:
I had a 60cm hybrid bike that fit well with seat/handlebars in a low configuration. It was a good fit until I cracked the aluminum head tube.
I also had a 50cm Crosscut that never did fit well, despite trying several combinations of seat, stem, and bars. It was just...too...small to get the job done well. I could get the seat high enough (barely), but the bars were too close, and I had issues with toe strikes and heel strikes (when using the rear rack). There's a reason I don't have that bike anymore.
I had a 60cm hybrid bike that fit well with seat/handlebars in a low configuration. It was a good fit until I cracked the aluminum head tube.
I also had a 50cm Crosscut that never did fit well, despite trying several combinations of seat, stem, and bars. It was just...too...small to get the job done well. I could get the seat high enough (barely), but the bars were too close, and I had issues with toe strikes and heel strikes (when using the rear rack). There's a reason I don't have that bike anymore.
#182
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1. Is toe overlap acceptable?
YES (barely).
2. Is weight distribution acceptable?
YES (once I moved the seat further back).
3. Is steering acceptable?
YES (better than 'acceptable').
4. Are post/stem length creating any safety issues or stress points at the correctly adjusted height?
NO.
YES (barely).
2. Is weight distribution acceptable?
YES (once I moved the seat further back).
3. Is steering acceptable?
YES (better than 'acceptable').
4. Are post/stem length creating any safety issues or stress points at the correctly adjusted height?
NO.
Last edited by campfire; 01-15-24 at 01:12 PM.