531, nice of you not to name names, even if we all have the "freedom" to say what we want...hehehe

Ianh..there are some other group rides that don't include Beach Rd too. Bikelife in Hawthorn has a Sunday ride up the 1 in 20 to Sassafrass (av spedd is high 20k's per hour if I recall), and I think there is a bunch from the cyclingforums board that 531 mentioned earlier that does a hilly loop up through Warrandyte & Kangaroo ground etc who welcome new dudes. Haven't done that one myself though.