Training Status??? (IV)
#8426
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,570
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 679 Times
in
430 Posts
I did the 20 hour a week thing many years ago. I took a deliberate approach to building up to 20 hours and was using it largely for off-season base building. But, after doing that for awhile, I just burned out. I didn't want to ride anymore. It became work.
Training is still work, but when I'm only worried about getting in 1.5 hours a few nights a week, it's not so bad.
Training is still work, but when I'm only worried about getting in 1.5 hours a few nights a week, it's not so bad.
#8427
Senior Member
riding has been largely nonexistent lately, ctl is down to 22. I'd like to actually race this season, after not doing anything last year, but I may limit myself to the local training crit where I can embarrass myself without the guilt of spending money and driving.
#8428
Nonsense
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918
Bikes: Affirmative
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times
in
237 Posts
See, I've done the zero to hero thing and wound up very very injured ignoring repetitive stress stuff. inflamed achilles lead to altering my pedaling form which lead to runners knee in both knees (from biking!), which lead to a really weird issue with my left hip. Then I had to take 6 weeks off entirely so all the #swole I had achieved went away and I had to start over again. And that was in 2011, after I had been training off and on half-assing it since I first started riding in like 2006. You're much better off doing regular workloads as your body adapts, and doing that consistently over time.
The advice I am giving is coming from personal experience. As a perma-3 I've done the Tucson winter thing 2x, went to Belgium for a winter, yadda yadda. Monster volume without long-term consistency really just doesn't pay off at all. It wasn't until 2014 when I got a power meter and started listening to my coach that the gains started coming. He started me off with like 10-12hr weeks and then during base I was doing like 15-18hrs a week and thought I was crushing it. Even then I was definitely riding too hard (which was my fault, my coach kept being like dial it back, too many watts). The whole saga is laid out in the various training threads. It's super super obvious I had no idea wtf I was doing haha, and even now it's only like the past year or so that things have really come together and I get "it".
Anyway like I said, the enthusiasm is awesome, but don't let it cloud your better judgment.
The advice I am giving is coming from personal experience. As a perma-3 I've done the Tucson winter thing 2x, went to Belgium for a winter, yadda yadda. Monster volume without long-term consistency really just doesn't pay off at all. It wasn't until 2014 when I got a power meter and started listening to my coach that the gains started coming. He started me off with like 10-12hr weeks and then during base I was doing like 15-18hrs a week and thought I was crushing it. Even then I was definitely riding too hard (which was my fault, my coach kept being like dial it back, too many watts). The whole saga is laid out in the various training threads. It's super super obvious I had no idea wtf I was doing haha, and even now it's only like the past year or so that things have really come together and I get "it".
Anyway like I said, the enthusiasm is awesome, but don't let it cloud your better judgment.
#8429
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,182
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
No Doge.
I see two outcomes possible. Most likely is not worrying about winning in the 5's as I try staying safe while getting as much experience as possible locally. Let the cards fall where they may and keep soaking up things learned from mistakes. The second aligns my training to start racing in earnest Jan. 1 in cycling Xanadu with a coach (While trying to stay safe and get as much experience as possible.)
The one thing I glossed over that's driving the hours as much or more than anything else is breathing. Such a huge part of this sport. Doing it sufficiently in deep cold without fogging up or freezing holes shut isn't the forceful open jawed affair required in fair to hot weather. You can take that as admission of struggling with one very important aspect I need in place. Last Saturday I figured out muscular failure without being out of breath was lack of oxygen. Wednesday morning it became top priority everything else would work towards. A little fire is exactly what I need. A damped one is what I have.
All the helpful comments are duly appreciated.
I see two outcomes possible. Most likely is not worrying about winning in the 5's as I try staying safe while getting as much experience as possible locally. Let the cards fall where they may and keep soaking up things learned from mistakes. The second aligns my training to start racing in earnest Jan. 1 in cycling Xanadu with a coach (While trying to stay safe and get as much experience as possible.)
All the helpful comments are duly appreciated.
#8430
Nonsense
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918
Bikes: Affirmative
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times
in
237 Posts
Muscle failure while nose breathing isn't lack of oxygen. You need intervals, and you need to be fresh enough to consistently put in time in the correct zones.
#8431
Has a magic bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590
Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone
Mentioned: 699 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4456 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times
in
157 Posts
This is spot-on.
Its hard to wrap your head around, how more-is-less. It seems like more should be more.
I remember when I first started training with my coach he commented that I has surprisingly poor aerobic fitness for someone who rode as much as I did (I was routinely riding 100-150 mile training rides at that point). I remember thinking WTF? I have really good endurance, which is all about aerobic fitness, right? I lack speed.
But the guy seemed like he knew what he was doing so I went along with it.
Eventually I came to understand what he was talking about. It was really that high-end aerobic fitness that I was lacking, the stuff that gets better with interval workouts and the kind of workouts you really can't do if you're fatigued all the time.
I'm still slow of course. Just less slow than I was.
#8432
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,182
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hold your breath and do tempo up a hill. I was doing exactly that without consciously realizing it during anything requiring effort.
What all of you are saying is very important once I've corrected this.
Edit: I suspected the wrong issue so I have been going too easy on intervals like 20 x 1' on the rollers.
What all of you are saying is very important once I've corrected this.
Edit: I suspected the wrong issue so I have been going too easy on intervals like 20 x 1' on the rollers.
Last edited by miyata man; 04-13-17 at 01:29 PM.
#8434
Senior Member
I'll say. I tried doing a 20' power test on rollers once, spun so fast that I got disoriented and fell over. Coulda really hurt myself. That was one of the dumber things I've tried.
#8436
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978
Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
You totally can do 15-20hr weeks without being rekt, but it takes a while to get to that point and a lot of discipline once you're doing it. You don't just decide you're going to start smashing out that sort of volume and expect it to go well, n'ahh sayin? I certainly wouldn't do a 20hr week while racing on the weekends and I have the rest of my life revolving around bikes.
#8437
Senior Member
#8438
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,182
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This is getting tedious. What is important here is I understand the difference between how to train on rollers v trainer. Meaning I was doing high cadence in too low a gear to notice I was barely sipping warmer air instead of using my diaphragm.
In form that crit was no harder than the last 45 minutes of testy little efforts rolling back to the meeting point at the end of a century. Going to quit posting in here for the time being and focus on the issues this year presented. If things click, that's a couple days of not being the center of attention when the stunningly simple answer all agree on has been thoroughly covered.
In form that crit was no harder than the last 45 minutes of testy little efforts rolling back to the meeting point at the end of a century. Going to quit posting in here for the time being and focus on the issues this year presented. If things click, that's a couple days of not being the center of attention when the stunningly simple answer all agree on has been thoroughly covered.
#8439
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,317
Bikes: Type of horse.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I got in:
3.5 hrs two weeks ago,
5.0 hrs last week
and 3 hrs so far this week.
Almost every ride is high SST/low FTP 1 hr long ride. I'm seeing my watts begin to come up, but I'm soo soo very weak. That's what full time work and full time school over the last 4 years will do to your fitness I guess...
3.5 hrs two weeks ago,
5.0 hrs last week
and 3 hrs so far this week.
Almost every ride is high SST/low FTP 1 hr long ride. I'm seeing my watts begin to come up, but I'm soo soo very weak. That's what full time work and full time school over the last 4 years will do to your fitness I guess...
#8443
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,570
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 679 Times
in
430 Posts
I guess I must be dense because I can't tell what the "stunningly simple answer we all agree on" is. Though, to be honest, I'm not even sure what the question was.
#8445
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,128
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1341 Post(s)
Liked 2,482 Times
in
1,457 Posts
Here is an idea for a translation sequence going from one poster to another to understand miyata man. I think Doge goes first. With his vast experience with juniors, (who can be unintelligible at times), and low USAC license number, he seems like a shoe in to take the first pass. Doge can be a little out there so we need an experienced Cat 1 with a proven reading comprehension and written communication skill set and interpretive power to translate Doge. Fudgy seems perfect and interprets Doge. TheKillerpenguin is needed to add the east coast "flair" and interprets Fudgy. Finally, there is only one person on the planet who can possibly understand the TKP, Globecanvas, finishes.
#8446
Senior Member
First ride out on the Quarq yesterday, did a couple of ~17ish minute intervals
Interestingly, it's much easier to hold power steady on it than on the Stages. Much less fluctuation on the 3s readout when I feel like I'm keeping things even. Definitely lower Watts for the level of exertion. Also, looks like my actual sprint watts are down too. Was sorta hoping those weren't reading too much higher since I imagine the L/R balance may be quite different in a sprint. Did a couple jumps just to test it out, and only saw 1100w peak and 1036 for 5s, which is pretty dissapointing :\ I did do them at the end of the ride, so maybe fresh would yield better numbers. I've definitely not felt like my sprint was ever a limiter, and I was hitting 1200s back in my Powertap days when I was first starting out, so hoping the endurance work hasn't decreased my jump that much! Then again, I did a drag race against an 115 lbs rider on a slight incline and was ahead by a bike length. His 5s for that effort was ~1050w, putting him at about 20W/kg. Meanwhile, Stages had me at 1264w, or 18.6 W/kg. What does it mean? Who knows?
Anyway, interesting seeing the power graph of a steady effort on the Stages compared to the Quarq:
Quarq:
Stages:
This was done on the same climb. Interestingly, it looks like I shift gears in mostly the same spots based on the cadence graphs. Had a decent tailwind yesterday accounting for some of the speed difference
Interestingly, it's much easier to hold power steady on it than on the Stages. Much less fluctuation on the 3s readout when I feel like I'm keeping things even. Definitely lower Watts for the level of exertion. Also, looks like my actual sprint watts are down too. Was sorta hoping those weren't reading too much higher since I imagine the L/R balance may be quite different in a sprint. Did a couple jumps just to test it out, and only saw 1100w peak and 1036 for 5s, which is pretty dissapointing :\ I did do them at the end of the ride, so maybe fresh would yield better numbers. I've definitely not felt like my sprint was ever a limiter, and I was hitting 1200s back in my Powertap days when I was first starting out, so hoping the endurance work hasn't decreased my jump that much! Then again, I did a drag race against an 115 lbs rider on a slight incline and was ahead by a bike length. His 5s for that effort was ~1050w, putting him at about 20W/kg. Meanwhile, Stages had me at 1264w, or 18.6 W/kg. What does it mean? Who knows?
Anyway, interesting seeing the power graph of a steady effort on the Stages compared to the Quarq:
Quarq:
Stages:
This was done on the same climb. Interestingly, it looks like I shift gears in mostly the same spots based on the cadence graphs. Had a decent tailwind yesterday accounting for some of the speed difference
#8447
Nonsense
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918
Bikes: Affirmative
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times
in
237 Posts
I was gonna say something or other about my gf understanding me too, but I guess she wouldn't put up with it if she actually did.
#8448
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
Last ride in the Dominican Republic this morning. Lucas and I went out with Umberto, the owner of the local shop. He was on his TT bike, which was a Venge with aerobars. Nice guy and very strong, but did not seem to know how to pull through without accelerating and gapping. Frustrating. More frustrating was that my Spanish isn't good enough to convey the message to stop doing that.
Anyway, we did 42 miles and Lucas hung in there like a champ. Umberto's shop is a Specialized dealer and he hooked Lucas up with a really nice Allez. I think I will keep my eye open for a used Allez frameset for Lucas' next bike.
Anyway, we did 42 miles and Lucas hung in there like a champ. Umberto's shop is a Specialized dealer and he hooked Lucas up with a really nice Allez. I think I will keep my eye open for a used Allez frameset for Lucas' next bike.
#8449
Senior Member
Openers, or something. Still trying to figure out what I need to do the day before a race...
but..
I get to play bike games tomorrow!
but..
I get to play bike games tomorrow!