nycphotography

The key is to know (learn) your body but also to push it. It will learn. It will adapt. Using carbs on a ride isn't a bad thing. But training your body to use fat instead is a better thing.

Fat adapting is a huge part of long distance performance, and also a key part of cutting weight.

Gym work is another huge part. A lot of cyclists are afraid of the gym because they don't want to bulk up. But a strong core (and to a lesser extent upper body) will both build muscle, cut fat, AND make you faster on the bike over longer distances. I don't do enough gym work to bulk up. 15-20 min 2x a week.

I'm not saying my way would be right for everyone.

I'm just saying the program I put together for myself worked for me. And it's the only thing that's EVER worked so completely for me on a whole body level.

tetonrider

how did your race results change?

tetonrider

it's like most people are trying to get off the stuff...and there he is, running to it! ;-)

j/k, doses and all.

thanks for answering my questions, @Ygduf. i can get why it works.

i know a bunch of middle-aged women who used various stimulants when they were in their 20s to stay thin. one of them was mad because she got the stuff from her friend instead of prescribed (as was common at the time), so she couldn't be part of the class action suit related to heart valve problems later in life. d'oh!

tommyrod74

I agree with tetonrider here as well.

tommyrod74

I agree with all of the above, and the part I emphasized especially... we live in an environment where food is marketed to you on taste and convenience, and the (often unstated, but just as often overt) message is this: if you're hungry, it's an EMERGENCY, and BAD THINGS will happen if you don't FIX IT NOW.

We are evolved to be a little hungry during the day; we don't keel over if we wait a couple of extra hours before eating.

Similarly, I tell clients eat while doing nothing else - don't look at the iphone, play on the laptop, watch TV - converse with others and pay attention to how you feel while eating. Eat slowly and stop when you are no longer hungry - NOT when you are full (which happens a bit later). Distractions keep you from noticing this.

tommyrod74

This is the key question.

Above a certain exertion level, high carbohydrate utilization is inevitable. At what intensity this occurs (and it's a continuum; you are never utilizing only fat or only carbohydrate) is a function of fitness, not so much what you chose to eat.

carpediemracing 

I'm pretty heavy at 170-172 right now. Based on bodyfat pictures in the low 20s, over 20%, at or below 25%.

At 155 I was closer to 15%, maybe 13%. That's about as low as realistic for me.

Plus, ultimately, although getting under 160 helps my racing, I'm not going to transform into some climber or time trialer so I'll still be doing the same events, same kinds of efforts, and there's a point of diminishing returns. For me it's not worth it to pursue beyond that. I'm curious what would happen for sure but not enough to drive me and my family bonkers over it.

+1

I'm also scared of smoking too so maybe there's that. I did joke when the patches came out that based on smokers' stories of staying thin while smoking that I should just load up on patches to lose weight.

Random thing just came to mind. One of the race car and car manufacturing people, Panoz, the family money came from making patch technology possible (maybe they invented it?).

carpediemracing 

I'll point out that my dieting thing is not sustainable. I've dieted twice in my life and both times I approached it like "okay I want to get to a target weight range". I wasn't thinking of after. I honestly don't know how I'd sustain a 155-160 lbs weight, for example. I seem to go to 170 pretty quickly.

Ygduf

meh. research and decide on your own.

nicotine isn't the bad part of cigarettes, and like 6-10mg/day is incredibly low.

TheKillerPenguin

Dear God.

dz_nuzz

The question that still hasn't been answered is the one @tetonrider posed to @nycphotography.

"how did your race results change?"

Or perhaps some power numbers?

nycphotography

I'm not racing. I do agree that it would be silly to try to cut weight this way during racing season (or in late training to peak).

I was off the bike for 3-4 years... this spring I found that having only 1 full time job opened up time to ride (imagine that) so I started back with 30 mile Z3 rides. Then 40 miles. Then decided to make it a full bodty challenge this time and I started the cut, while still riding and training, building miles, and adding intensity.

My power came along, my base came along, and I was able to build fitness (improved performance) while cutting the weight. The catch is that I was building on a low starting point.

If I were already fit, would the cut have cost me power? Possibly, I don't know.

If I were to do it over this winter while basing? I suspect not any more than winter basing does in general, but that's just my best guess.

Enthalpic

Doesn't it make your throat burn? I tried a piece once a spit it out pretty quick. Any upset stomach?

Already up to 5 pieces/day?

Have any links handy where it was used as a weight loss aid with non-smokers? All the papers involving smoking cessation makes those harder to find.

nycphotography

I'm not sure how sustainable 150 will be. My whole younger life I was 150-155 pretty much without trying. Then the metabolism went on strike in the late 30's. I made some diet changes, stabilized it around 160. Then it went on a strike again late 40's. We will see how much it wants to bounce back with a "normal" diet.

TheKillerPenguin

That sort of crash diet can't be good for your metabolism, your approach was extreme.

I'd wager with steady riding you will gain back weight in the form of muscle and increased blood volume. If you gain a little fat back that probably isn't a bad thing I don't think, unless you have a personal chef I think it's necessary to maintain depth and recover day to day.

I'm not a diet expert by any means, I'm just doing what my coach says and follow the macros on my fitness pal, but...damn dude.

nycphotography

For power numbers, there is a local climb done for time. Alpine on River Road. "Parking lot to ranger station".

This year, I started hitting it for time later in the season. My times were 7:30, 7:15, 7:00, finally did it in 6:47 @ 297w. That's this year, that's building power... that's building power while holding weight around 150.

Comparison point is from wayyy back in 2009. 7 years younger, and at this point I think the years are starting to matter Second season of training, structured training with a coach, racing in the park. I did the climb in 6:34 @ 316w. I think my weight was around 158.

I think it is reasonable to expect that if I train, I will be stronger next year, and should be able to beat the 6:30 mark. Would love to see 6:15 or even 6:00. Hey, one can dream right?

So while I can't claim top results, I can definitely say that the cut did not hold back my training this year, and now I have a good base to build on.

I do like how setting a goal that will take more than 15 minutes to achieve and sticking it through to completion is "self hatred". A little will power and focus is apparently unobtanium to most people? Dear god, indeed.

nycphotography

Metabolism seems fine so far, if not increased. The high impact gym work really does boost metabolism, even in moderate amounts.

I expect I will gain weight w muscle. My "goal" was to see if I could get magazine cover ripped abs at 50. So far.... close but no cigar. It has been an interesting, and even fun experiment.

I find it amazing the things I learned this year, not just about myself but also about other people.

The idea that I would have to stay hungry, ravenous, to make this happen, turned out to be not true. My body and appetite adjusted to this reality.

dz_nuzz

I believe what people are pointing at is that this isn't about "just weight loss" it is more about optimization. You don't want to sabotage your training or racing by going too gung-ho on a diet (Done that, would not recommend). Cutting out carbs is, in general, bad for performance on the bike and performance matters in both training and racing.

If your method worked for you then that is great, but it sounds like you are at the point of seeing gains through volume and riding alone. Other people are at the point where that has stopped working and performance increases become a question of balancing weight with power and trying not to lose power while losing weight.

Could I hit 150 again? Sure I could crash myself into oblivion and commit to only riding Z2 or lower. But would that really help my racing if I started losing the ability to survive to the end of a road race? Probably not.

Ygduf

Not if you chew it slowly, no. I've never smoked at all, so the first time I tried 4mg I did feel pretty weird. 2mg not as much and I've gotten used to it.


No legit studies. Was posting from my experience. If you google "nicotine gum appetite suppressant" though there are plenty of anecdotes. Not scientific, maybe, but I'm not alone in finding it helpful.

And like I said above, one of the benefits to me is the reduced half-life. e.g. I chew a piece on my ride home from work when I'm tired. It helps me get home, and it helps me get through my 90-minute shift with two tired-cranky babies from 5:30-7 without impacting my sleep.

hubcyclist

i've had success recently with dropping some pounds I've gained in the last year. somehow I ended up going from 155 to 170 (by eating lol). In the past couple of months I've gradually gone back down to 157-159 range, so still have a few more to go to get to my goal. I wish I had a formula or something, but really the key for me was to be a lot more careful about eating more than I really need to. Once I had lost weight initially (in 2013 when I went from 210 to 155), I focused more on replacing calories from working out so I wasn't losing more weight. I think that gradually morphed into eating more than I was burning, hence the weight gain. Right now I've tried to make sure not to go nuts after workouts, where I could easily devour a couple of peanut butter sandwiches, drink milk, and whatever else I can find around the house. I'll eat, of course, but try not to make a huge meal of it.

Other than that, I don't really have any real method, I work at home a lot and have an espresso machine, so that reduces the need to go to dunkin and ultimately get a muffin or donut, because I'm very weak lol Most mornings I'll have maybe 3 skim lattes (double shot of espresso in each) and a bagel, and I try to avoid evening snacking, where I tend to go overboard on carby stuff.

On the training side, I have increased my ftp whilst losing weight, albeit maybe 10-15w from 250-265, so nothing very impressive.

ancker

Self control with beer is going to be difficult.

I don't drink a lot (quantity), but usually have a good quality beer with dinner (on rare occasion two). I know it's empty calories, but it's just so yummy. At 200-300 calories/beer, that's 1400-2100 calories a week...

Enthalpic

The mechanism appears to be reduced activation of hypothalamic AMPK, acting similar to thyroid hormones.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24517227

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3314364/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20802499

up on two

I use a simple tonic of apple cider vinegar with honey and lemon whenever I need to trim a little weight.
Green tea and cinnamon works good too. Keeps the appetite under control while boosting your metabolism.

nycphotography

for the record, I didn't cut all carbs. I cut all extraneous carbs.

I still got plenty of carbs.

triple zero yogurt: 15g protein (60 cal) of 120, leaving 15g of carbs
whey protein shake w/ 12 oz 1% milk. lactose = 17 grams of carbs
can of butter beans w/ salt pepper and olive oil has like 70 grams of (complex) carbs.
etc etc etc.

caloso

Preach!