Tired of the Ullrich bashing by PEZ
04-28-06, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Rodies
I'm not sure about the his being a dick part but if you've ever read anything about LA the ultra-obsessive/competitive/combative personality has been with him since childhood.
As for Jan being well adjusted, well we don't know that for sure do we. None of us know the man. All we can say for sure is that he has consistently come to the Tour in less than race condition. For a professional who gets paid millions of dollars to win one race a year I think we can objectively say that is unacceptable.
As for Jan being well adjusted, well we don't know that for sure do we. None of us know the man. All we can say for sure is that he has consistently come to the Tour in less than race condition. For a professional who gets paid millions of dollars to win one race a year I think we can objectively say that is unacceptable.
There are plenty of examples of it: the climb up Brasstown Bald at TdG in 2005, stage 18 TdF 2004
Just because he was born with this attitude doesn't justify it. A jerk is a jerk.
I was just speculating that Jan is well adjusted, based on the fact that we haven't seen the same sort of behavior out of Ullrich than we have from Lance. I could be wrong and he might be a bigger jerk than Lance. I doubt it, though.
But to say that Ullrich has come to the TdF in less than race condition is absolutely ridiculous. No one out of race condition could ever perform like he has the past decade. Jan's only problem is that he wasn't able to beat a man that was so absolutely dead set on winning the race that everything else took a back seat. There is nothing wrong with that. It is not "unacceptable."
You are participating in the very same Jan-bashing that this thread was created about. Quit it.
04-28-06, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by theworm86
I was just speculating that Jan is well adjusted, based on the fact that we haven't seen the same sort of behavior out of Ullrich than we have from Lance. I could be wrong and he might be a bigger jerk than Lance. I doubt it, though.
04-28-06, 05:22 PM
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You guys don't get it, do you? My point is this:
Yes, Jan made questionable decisions in the past, but no, it's not fair to jump on him this year for all of that. He came into this season in great shape and as luck would have it, he injured his knee. The injury was bad luck, not him being lazy or wasting his talent.
He finally did the right thing, but nobody gives him credit for it.
Yes, Jan made questionable decisions in the past, but no, it's not fair to jump on him this year for all of that. He came into this season in great shape and as luck would have it, he injured his knee. The injury was bad luck, not him being lazy or wasting his talent.
He finally did the right thing, but nobody gives him credit for it.
04-28-06, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Surely you don't mean to imply that there is such a clear-cut dichotomy between being a jerk and being well-adjusted. That is, there are many people who are not well adjusted, though they are not jerks either. Just because Jan is not a jerk (assuming he isn't), does not necessarily mean he is well adjusted.
I have sorta been interchanging the two, huh?
To clarify, and again, this is all complete speculation, but thats what we all do here anyway:
Jan Ullrich doesn't seem to be a jerk.
Jan Ullrich also seems to be well-adjusted, i.e. his life doesn't begin and end with the Tour de France.
I can't quite say the same for Lance.
04-28-06, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DXchulo
You guys don't get it, do you? My point is this:
Yes, Jan made questionable decisions in the past, but no, it's not fair to jump on him this year for all of that. He came into this season in great shape and as luck would have it, he injured his knee. The injury was bad luck, not him being lazy or wasting his talent.
He finally did the right thing, but nobody gives him credit for it.
Yes, Jan made questionable decisions in the past, but no, it's not fair to jump on him this year for all of that. He came into this season in great shape and as luck would have it, he injured his knee. The injury was bad luck, not him being lazy or wasting his talent.
He finally did the right thing, but nobody gives him credit for it.
04-28-06, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by theworm86
Combative personality = being a dick
There are plenty of examples of it: the climb up Brasstown Bald at TdG in 2005, stage 18 TdF 2004
Just because he was born with this attitude doesn't justify it. A jerk is a jerk.
I was just speculating that Jan is well adjusted, based on the fact that we haven't seen the same sort of behavior out of Ullrich than we have from Lance. I could be wrong and he might be a bigger jerk than Lance. I doubt it, though.
But to say that Ullrich has come to the TdF in less than race condition is absolutely ridiculous. No one out of race condition could ever perform like he has the past decade. Jan's only problem is that he wasn't able to beat a man that was so absolutely dead set on winning the race that everything else took a back seat. There is nothing wrong with that. It is not "unacceptable."
You are participating in the very same Jan-bashing that this thread was created about. Quit it.
There are plenty of examples of it: the climb up Brasstown Bald at TdG in 2005, stage 18 TdF 2004
Just because he was born with this attitude doesn't justify it. A jerk is a jerk.
I was just speculating that Jan is well adjusted, based on the fact that we haven't seen the same sort of behavior out of Ullrich than we have from Lance. I could be wrong and he might be a bigger jerk than Lance. I doubt it, though.
But to say that Ullrich has come to the TdF in less than race condition is absolutely ridiculous. No one out of race condition could ever perform like he has the past decade. Jan's only problem is that he wasn't able to beat a man that was so absolutely dead set on winning the race that everything else took a back seat. There is nothing wrong with that. It is not "unacceptable."
You are participating in the very same Jan-bashing that this thread was created about. Quit it.
04-28-06, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by theworm86
Combative personality = being a dick
.
.
Well this winter I had the opportunity to ride with Lance for about an hour. He split off from the Disco guys and was heading back to Austin and I rode with him. He was anything but a dick. We talked about life, kids, Austin and Cali (I'm from So Cal). It was just two guys riding bike shoot'n the s#$t. He is definitely a hard competitor that shows little or no mercy for the guys he races against. I'm not a LA worshiper but for you to say he's a dick and Jan is such a great guy without ever spending anytime with either of them is a bit of stretch. I don't claim to know LA any more than I claim to know Jan but past is prologe and Jan has a very public history of showing up to the Tour underprepared.
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04-29-06, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by daytonian
I think LA's attitude is tame compared with a fiery Italian or Belgian rider. You think Merkx got called "Cannibal" by mistake?
Merckx was called "The Cannibal" because he raced flat out all the time. The examples I cited were not about Armstrong being a fiery competitor, but an immature jerk.
04-29-06, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Rodies
Well this winter I had the opportunity to ride with Lance for about an hour. He split off from the Disco guys and was heading back to Austin and I rode with him. He was anything but a dick. We talked about life, kids, Austin and Cali (I'm from So Cal). It was just two guys riding bike shoot'n the s#$t. He is definitely a hard competitor that shows little or no mercy for the guys he races against. I'm not a LA worshiper but for you to say he's a dick and Jan is such a great guy without ever spending anytime with either of them is a bit of stretch. I don't claim to know LA any more than I claim to know Jan but past is prologe and Jan has a very public history of showing up to the Tour underprepared.
04-29-06, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by theworm86
I shouldn't have called LA a dick, because that isn't my point. If these two guys weren't sports personalities and were "ordinary" dudes, you'd think LA was insane and that Jan was normal. My assumptions are based purely on the behavior I have seen them exhibit in the public eye. And everyone rags on Jan for being "underprepared", which is bullcrap. He is only underprepared in relation to Armstrong, a guy was willing to do anything to win (which isn't a good thing).
04-29-06, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by daytonian
It's been well documented in the media and here that Ullrich showed up at 04 TDF heavy and off form from previous years. Nothing wrong with that, I like the guy, but aren't the top ten riders there to try and win?
04-29-06, 04:15 PM
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believe me when i say this, because i have some connections that are closer than you, or anyone in, Ohio will ever be, that the man is flawed, and has to take some resposibility for the choices that HE has made.
Originally Posted by DXchulo
You guys don't get it, do you? My point is this:
04-29-06, 09:15 PM
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If Ullrich were to come to the tour this year in the shape he was in '03, or even close, and give him a team for support (did you EVER see a Bianchi rider ANYWHERE near him other than the TTT?) he will win by ten minutes. Unfortunately... I don't think thats gonna happen, but I'm still gonna be rooting for him.
04-29-06, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by botto
believe me when i say this, because i have some connections that are closer than you, or anyone in, Ohio will ever be, that the man is flawed, and has to take some resposibility for the choices that HE has made.
04-29-06, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by botto
believe me when i say this, because i have some connections that are closer than you, or anyone in, Ohio will ever be, that the man is flawed, and has to take some resposibility for the choices that HE has made.
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04-29-06, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by HigherGround
How does that make him any different from the rest of us?
Living up to your potential or not...it must be pretty cool to be one of the greatest riders to ever sit on a bike seat.
04-30-06, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wabbit
i think theworm is right... lance was willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING to win seven tours and have his name in history.
05-01-06, 10:43 PM
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And it continues:
That's funny, I don't recall Basso suffering from a knee injury.
And like I said before, the fact that he's willing to do these races when he's not in top form takes a lot of balls. I think he deserves some props for that.
Check how VeloNews covered the same story:
A lot more fair, isn't it?
Riding the Giro and finishing the Giro could be very good for Ullrich. The veteran could very well ride himself into form over the three weeks, unfortunately, he'll have the eyes of bike racing fans everywhere firmly glued on his solid build. Nothing like suffering into form and having the whole world watch you...and have cycling journalists (ahem) the world over criticize you every step of the way.
Jeez dude, if you only did it Basso-style, it would be so simple.
Jeez dude, if you only did it Basso-style, it would be so simple.
And like I said before, the fact that he's willing to do these races when he's not in top form takes a lot of balls. I think he deserves some props for that.
Check how VeloNews covered the same story:
Former Tour de France winner Jan Ullrich said he was satisfied with his performance on his comeback from injury despite finishing almost last at the Tour of Romandie which ended on Sunday.
photo: AFP
Ullrich finished 115th out of the 120 riders who completed all six days of the tour and ended up around 50 minutes behind winner Cadel Evans and fellow Tour de France hopeful Alejandro Valverde who was third.
The German T-Mobile rider, who won the sport's flagship event back in 1997 and has finished runner-up five times, will now continue his tune-up for the French showpiece at the Tour of Italy next month, which again he is not expecting to challenge in.
"It was a great success for me to finish this stage," said Ullrich after Sunday's time-trial. "My knee held up well and I will tackle the Tour of Italy with determination to increase my strength and to improve."
The 32-year-old injured his knee at the beginning of March in a training crash.
"This was a very difficult course but I tackled it. Even the last stage, a time-trial, was difficult," added Ullrich, a time-trial specialist.
The German finished 69th at 2min 28sec off Evans in the time-trial, an event he would normally be expected to win with ease, were he in his usual condition.
Ullrich struggled on this tour, his first race of the season, particularly on Saturday when there were three first category climbs. He finished that stage 25 minutes behind winner Valverde.
"Jan showed a lot of courage and determination in making his comeback in such a hard race. Few riders could have done that," said T-Mobile sporting director Rudy Pevenage.
photo: AFP
Ullrich finished 115th out of the 120 riders who completed all six days of the tour and ended up around 50 minutes behind winner Cadel Evans and fellow Tour de France hopeful Alejandro Valverde who was third.
The German T-Mobile rider, who won the sport's flagship event back in 1997 and has finished runner-up five times, will now continue his tune-up for the French showpiece at the Tour of Italy next month, which again he is not expecting to challenge in.
"It was a great success for me to finish this stage," said Ullrich after Sunday's time-trial. "My knee held up well and I will tackle the Tour of Italy with determination to increase my strength and to improve."
The 32-year-old injured his knee at the beginning of March in a training crash.
"This was a very difficult course but I tackled it. Even the last stage, a time-trial, was difficult," added Ullrich, a time-trial specialist.
The German finished 69th at 2min 28sec off Evans in the time-trial, an event he would normally be expected to win with ease, were he in his usual condition.
Ullrich struggled on this tour, his first race of the season, particularly on Saturday when there were three first category climbs. He finished that stage 25 minutes behind winner Valverde.
"Jan showed a lot of courage and determination in making his comeback in such a hard race. Few riders could have done that," said T-Mobile sporting director Rudy Pevenage.
05-02-06, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DXchulo
Quit living in the past, PEZ.
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