Jynx

That site kills my eyes

botto 

this is what i used, with a generous layer of baby oil on top, when i was racing in that kind of weather in scotland.

missing

Bdger Balm, Sore Muscle Rub

https://www.badgerbalm.com/pc-18-2-sore-muscle-rub.aspx

Lithuania

leg warmer + cold and wet = waste of time if not worse

Racer Ex 

I raced and trained year round in Reno Nevada for the first 3 years I was at this . I rode another 3 prior to that. I would ride and go backcountry skiing on the same day. One of my Vinokurtov posts:

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/249273-77-freezing-long.html

Depends on the material. Wool in particular will still provide insulation when wet, it was the material of choice for diving suits back in the day. And there are synthetics that do the same, include polypro, Thermax, and others.

YMCA

Race days mean embrocation for me, down to 30F/-2C.

Extra clothing = less freedom

That said, I recommend that everyone "train" in leg warmers anytime the thermostat goes below 65 and Sunny, or 70 and rainy.

ElJamoquio

Interesting (from wikipedia), so take it for what it's worth:

Recently, capsaicin is being tested for the prevention of pain post surgery. David Julius, a physiology professor at the University of California, San Francisco, recently discovered that capsaicin selectively binds to a protein known as TRPV1 that resides on the membranes of pain and heat sensing neurons. TRPV1 a heat activated calcium channel, with a threshold to open between 37 and 45 Celsius degrees (37 degrees is normal body temperature). When capsaicin binds to TRPV1, it causes the channel to lower its opening threshold, thereby opening it at temperatures less than the body's temperature, which is why capsaicin is linked to the sensation of heat. Prolonged activation of these neurons by capsaicin depletes presynaptic substance P, one of the body's neurotransmitters for pain and heat. Neurons that do not contain TRPV1 are unaffected.[10] This causes extended numbness following surgery, and the patient does not feel pain as the capsaicin is applied under anesthesia.

The result appears to be that the chemical mimics a burning sensation, the nerves are overwhelmed by the influx, and are unable to report pain for an extended period of time. With chronic exposure to capsaicin, neurons are depleted of neurotransmitters and it leads to reduction in sensation of pain and blockade of neurogenic inflammation. If capsaicin is removed, the neurons recover.

botto 

bingo.

wfrogge

It was a blustery 50 degrees for a race this past Saturday........ Got 5th with Icy Hot + Tiger Balm. If I been wearing knee warmers it would have cost me at least 3 spots

briscoelab

People who race cyclocross (like me) rely on embrocation for a good number of races. This is becasue the last thing you want is to be wearing knee or leg warmers in a cold, wet, sloppy race. They just get soaked with mud and water. Then you're hauling around an extra 10 lbs of cold, wet clothing. It's much better to use the embrocation.

Good ones seal out moisture and do actually help promote blood flow, rather than just irritate your skin to give a false sense of being warm. There is obviously a point where it's just too cold though and you have to put something on your legs. ie at CX nats last year when it was 9* during my race.

If it's just cold and not wet, I'll typically throw some knee warmers on instead of messing with the embro though. I also would suggest that you don't use embro for most training rides... save it for the races.

I have used Qoleum and greyhound juice with really good success. Just be ready for some pain in the shower afterwards! It takes some serious scrubbing (use dish soap to get it off quicker) and the hot water really burns when it touches it.

botto 

+1.

embrocation for training is beyond poseurdom.

bikeM3987

I have considered using it because it doesn't get too cold around here. I obviously would have to try it before a race day a couple times, but I am still hesitant. I have heard it is bad for your muscles because your legs are perceivably warmer, but the cold still hurts them. What is the consensus on them for race day?

botto 

did you read the thread?

YMCA

way beyond...

Racer Ex 

Not to rain on everybody's "old school" parade here, but according to several sources I've read most of the products are vaso-dilators. Which, If your trying to ward off cold, makes you feel warmer but makes you lose heat faster than nothing at all. They provide no insulation and counteract the body's natural heat saving mechanisms (vaso-constriction).

While your body's efficiency might be somewhat hampered by leggings of some type (though good technical garments generally won't and have shown in some research to actually improve performance), losing heat is worse for performance over anything but very short periods. There are studies after studies that show both physical and mental ability degrade with heat loss.

Obviously if you're wearing leggings that fall down if they get wet you're screwed. But there are very functional garments out there.

Dubbayoo

I don't ride in cold weather but I would guess it's similar to the belief that alcohol keeps street bums warm. Alcohol makes the drinker feel warmer because it causes blood to rise to the skin's surface. However, when this happens, the body temperature is actually lowered because the surface heat is lost.

Creakyknees

Hey, these guys aren't old school. They're running cf wheels in training rides, and posting their power files for all to review and comment.

Speaking of which, I'm sure it's easy, Botto, to demonstrate the assertion that knee/legwarmers hurt your performance since "Extra clothing = less freedom". Just post your power files from a training ride with knee warmers, and similar weather w/ embro.

Next point. This may be old school, but it's still a good rule: don't try new things on race day. That means food, drink mixes, equipment... and embrocation. If you think it's for you, do yourself a favor and try it in training first.

carlfreddy

Why is everyone getting so sensitive about embrocation?

This is starting to sound like a campy/shimano thread.

botto 

spare me.

YMCA

Because embrocation means war.
Leg warmers only mean training for war.
And war time is go time.

carlfreddy

briscoelab

The point of the embro isn't to ward off cold at all. It is to promote blood flow to your legs and counteract your body's natural instinct to reduce blood flow to extremities when it's cold. In a situation when you are producing excess heat anyway, like during a hard race effort, most would care less about the heat loss.

Obviously, you wouldn't want to rub embro all over your body if you're stranded in a snow storm or something. Sure, you'd feel warmer, but you'd be screwing yourself since you'd be promoting heat loss. This isn't a concern during most bike races.... they are short in duration and you typically have a nice warm car to get into afterwards... and a hot shower at home.

For road races, stick mostly to my suggestions for cross race use. If it's just cold, then use leg of knee warmers. Cold and wet, then start thinking about the embro.

bdcheung

Does body fat % impact the gain from embrocations?

botto 

only when you apply it to your face.

ridethecliche

I figured that embro was just a concoction of vasodialators. Makes perfect sense.

Capsaicin is made from peppers and numbs nerves, as the wiki article said. It's being used to treat arthritic pain.

I wear shorts into the low 50's if it's sunny and I'm doing a harder ride. If it's below 60 and looking a little shady, I'll wear the leg warmers.

Tights go on at 35-40 degrees. I don't ride below 15ish, so I bundle up on top and the legs stay warm.