Racing: an honorable sporting event, or a back-alley knife fight?
06-22-09, 02:55 PM
#26
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who cares
race to have fun...attack, sit in for a go at the sprint win, just RACE, put it out there and give those around you the respect you want in return
if you want a sport where winning is 100% dependant on whoever is "the most fit" for the race then take up running
edit: i don't really even care about the guys who sit in hoping for a top ten...but i do have disdain for lifetime peloton dogs who snicker at attackers who get blown out the back...unless a paycheck is involved those ******* are the scum of the cycling world
race to have fun...attack, sit in for a go at the sprint win, just RACE, put it out there and give those around you the respect you want in return
if you want a sport where winning is 100% dependant on whoever is "the most fit" for the race then take up running
edit: i don't really even care about the guys who sit in hoping for a top ten...but i do have disdain for lifetime peloton dogs who snicker at attackers who get blown out the back...unless a paycheck is involved those ******* are the scum of the cycling world
Last edited by TrippleB; 06-22-09 at 03:01 PM.
06-22-09, 02:56 PM
#28
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Poulidor wore his malediction like a virtual coat of shining armor.
06-22-09, 03:00 PM
#29
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The District Rep, just sayin.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
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06-22-09, 03:00 PM
#30
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who cares
most of us race for fun...
if fun for you is attacking the hell out of a peloton then by all means go for it, hopefully you will get a break. personally i love to attack, and will give props to anyone who held a nice long one even if they get blown out the back of the peloton at the end
if fun for someone else is sitting in / reeling in the break and waiting for the all-balls-out sprint then hoorah. sprinting takes power, balls and tactics.
if you want a sport where winning is 100% dependant on whoever is "the most fit" for the race then take up running
most of us race for fun...
if fun for you is attacking the hell out of a peloton then by all means go for it, hopefully you will get a break. personally i love to attack, and will give props to anyone who held a nice long one even if they get blown out the back of the peloton at the end
if fun for someone else is sitting in / reeling in the break and waiting for the all-balls-out sprint then hoorah. sprinting takes power, balls and tactics.
if you want a sport where winning is 100% dependant on whoever is "the most fit" for the race then take up running
you want fun? ride a grandfondo.
06-22-09, 03:06 PM
#31
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06-22-09, 03:37 PM
#32
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whatever. while the following is more about mortals, such as ourselves, it pretty much covers my opinion about racers in general:
i will always have more respect for the racer who got away in a break and won.
i will never have respect for the anonymous racers, who you never see on the front until the final 200 meters.
i will always have more respect for the racer who got away in a break and won.
i will never have respect for the anonymous racers, who you never see on the front until the final 200 meters.
"All warfare is based on deception."
"He who is skilled in attack flashes forth from the topmost heights of heaven."
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Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace
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Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace
1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
1988 Ducati 750 F1
06-22-09, 04:12 PM
#34
starting pistol means war
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06-22-09, 05:45 PM
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i do not advocate needless risk, but unfortunately it's a reality of amateur racing...i don't like it, and would love to see more restraint; but i accept it...if you can't accept that exessive machismo bs then racing isn't for you
Last edited by TrippleB; 06-22-09 at 05:51 PM.
06-22-09, 06:51 PM
#39
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No, I meant it the opposite way. I want to sit in to get top tens to get an upgrade.
The reflection is on my racing tactics not Tim's
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
06-23-09, 02:08 AM
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if you don't race for fun or a paycheck, then what?
i do not advocate needless risk, but unfortunately it's a reality of amateur racing...i don't like it, and would love to see more restraint; but i accept it...if you can't accept that exessive machismo bs then racing isn't for you
i do not advocate needless risk, but unfortunately it's a reality of amateur racing...i don't like it, and would love to see more restraint; but i accept it...if you can't accept that exessive machismo bs then racing isn't for you
06-23-09, 08:58 AM
#41
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winning after being on the front/off the front is more glorious than just winning. It's not machismo, its a degree of class or style. People often mention how "off" it would be if the overall winner of the Tour did not win a single stage. I agree.
I will still try to clean your plate before I start on my own. There are no pundits dissecting my races and after only a grand total of 24 races I've got no reputation to speak of or be concerned about. When I get to the 3s, that will be a different story as that category will probably be my future retirement home and I will have the time to build a reputation.
I will still try to clean your plate before I start on my own. There are no pundits dissecting my races and after only a grand total of 24 races I've got no reputation to speak of or be concerned about. When I get to the 3s, that will be a different story as that category will probably be my future retirement home and I will have the time to build a reputation.
06-23-09, 09:39 AM
#42
starting pistol means war
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What would your wife/kids/employer/mama think?
Aim super-duper-extra high and fail. It's the American way.
06-23-09, 09:53 AM
#43
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Agreed. Generally speaking, the course will dictate a good portion of the tactics.
I race a lot of crits. Getting away on a flat crit where anyone can see you is damn near impossible. You can try it all you want, but it isn't going to do much for you. You'll get reeled in after a couple laps. If the break actually sticks, it will be by the skin on it's teeth and be damned impressive to watch.
Having said that, I get on the front and into breaks, especially in races that I'm not trying to do well in personally (when I'm riding for a teammate). For one, it's more interesting than sitting in the pack saving matches. Second, it helps the teammate by making others get on the front and do work. Third it's safer than playing 'cover your front tire' for 45 minutes.
In the end, though, 99% of my races come down to a group sprint. If you're gonna have a chance to place well, or win, you need to be able to hop out of the saddle and crank on it for the last 30 seconds.
I race a lot of crits. Getting away on a flat crit where anyone can see you is damn near impossible. You can try it all you want, but it isn't going to do much for you. You'll get reeled in after a couple laps. If the break actually sticks, it will be by the skin on it's teeth and be damned impressive to watch.
Having said that, I get on the front and into breaks, especially in races that I'm not trying to do well in personally (when I'm riding for a teammate). For one, it's more interesting than sitting in the pack saving matches. Second, it helps the teammate by making others get on the front and do work. Third it's safer than playing 'cover your front tire' for 45 minutes.
In the end, though, 99% of my races come down to a group sprint. If you're gonna have a chance to place well, or win, you need to be able to hop out of the saddle and crank on it for the last 30 seconds.
06-23-09, 11:24 AM
#44
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Agreed. Generally speaking, the course will dictate a good portion of the tactics.
I race a lot of crits. Getting away on a flat crit where anyone can see you is damn near impossible. You can try it all you want, but it isn't going to do much for you. You'll get reeled in after a couple laps. If the break actually sticks, it will be by the skin on it's teeth and be damned impressive to watch.
Having said that, I get on the front and into breaks, especially in races that I'm not trying to do well in personally (when I'm riding for a teammate). For one, it's more interesting than sitting in the pack saving matches. Second, it helps the teammate by making others get on the front and do work. Third it's safer than playing 'cover your front tire' for 45 minutes.
In the end, though, 99% of my races come down to a group sprint. If you're gonna have a chance to place well, or win, you need to be able to hop out of the saddle and crank on it for the last 30 seconds.
I race a lot of crits. Getting away on a flat crit where anyone can see you is damn near impossible. You can try it all you want, but it isn't going to do much for you. You'll get reeled in after a couple laps. If the break actually sticks, it will be by the skin on it's teeth and be damned impressive to watch.
Having said that, I get on the front and into breaks, especially in races that I'm not trying to do well in personally (when I'm riding for a teammate). For one, it's more interesting than sitting in the pack saving matches. Second, it helps the teammate by making others get on the front and do work. Third it's safer than playing 'cover your front tire' for 45 minutes.
In the end, though, 99% of my races come down to a group sprint. If you're gonna have a chance to place well, or win, you need to be able to hop out of the saddle and crank on it for the last 30 seconds.
06-23-09, 11:40 AM
#45
ride lots be safe
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was talking this over w/ my best bud, who has won a lot of races, and he said, "ya know, most of the races I won, were solo" and I had to think for a minute to realize he's right, in his case.
he was really good at the 5 laps to go sneak away move, and had the legs to hold it while the sprinters looked at each other.
he was really good at the 5 laps to go sneak away move, and had the legs to hold it while the sprinters looked at each other.
06-23-09, 12:13 PM
#46
out walking the earth
Agreed. Generally speaking, the course will dictate a good portion of the tactics.
I race a lot of crits. Getting away on a flat crit where anyone can see you is damn near impossible. You can try it all you want, but it isn't going to do much for you. You'll get reeled in after a couple laps. If the break actually sticks, it will be by the skin on it's teeth and be damned impressive to watch.
I race a lot of crits. Getting away on a flat crit where anyone can see you is damn near impossible. You can try it all you want, but it isn't going to do much for you. You'll get reeled in after a couple laps. If the break actually sticks, it will be by the skin on it's teeth and be damned impressive to watch.
06-23-09, 01:30 PM
#48
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From The Rider by Tim Krabbe'
Tour de France 1977
"During the decisive stage, Van Impe made his escape and, at a given point, had such a huge lead that it seemed the tour was in his pocket.
"Behind him three riders had come together: Thevenet (in the yellow jersey), Kuiper and Zoetemelk, the only other riders who still had a chance.
"If Thevenet had done what his team manager advised him to do, namely allow the two Dutchmen to hang themselves with their own rope, he would have hanged with them and all three would have lost the Tour.
"But Thevenet shouldered the blackmailing of the yellow jersey and of his ambition, and pulled the lead for the others. As was to be expected, Zoetemelk and Kuiper profited from this by escaping on the last mountain. Zoetemelk cracked, but Kuiper passed Van Impe who was badly cracked as well, and won the stage, but not the yellow jersey; in a fantastic comeback, during which he forced things harder than he had ever forced them in his career, Thevenet was able to keep the damage precisely within bounds and kept the yellow jersey all the way to Paris.
"No matter how Kuiper had advanced his chances of winning the Tour by hanging on to Thevenet's wheel, he had destroyed every chance of winning it grandly.
"Thevenet won it grandly."
Tour de France 1977
"During the decisive stage, Van Impe made his escape and, at a given point, had such a huge lead that it seemed the tour was in his pocket.
"Behind him three riders had come together: Thevenet (in the yellow jersey), Kuiper and Zoetemelk, the only other riders who still had a chance.
"If Thevenet had done what his team manager advised him to do, namely allow the two Dutchmen to hang themselves with their own rope, he would have hanged with them and all three would have lost the Tour.
"But Thevenet shouldered the blackmailing of the yellow jersey and of his ambition, and pulled the lead for the others. As was to be expected, Zoetemelk and Kuiper profited from this by escaping on the last mountain. Zoetemelk cracked, but Kuiper passed Van Impe who was badly cracked as well, and won the stage, but not the yellow jersey; in a fantastic comeback, during which he forced things harder than he had ever forced them in his career, Thevenet was able to keep the damage precisely within bounds and kept the yellow jersey all the way to Paris.
"No matter how Kuiper had advanced his chances of winning the Tour by hanging on to Thevenet's wheel, he had destroyed every chance of winning it grandly.
"Thevenet won it grandly."
06-23-09, 04:03 PM
#49
Wheelsuck
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I have just experienced fewer break wins in wide open crits where everyone can always see everyone. The 'out of sight, out of mind' thing really does seem to be a factor.
06-23-09, 04:13 PM
#50
out walking the earth
Harlem. About as city as it gets. But I have 35 races this year, with 2/3 of them being crits in a variety of course and all but one have finished in a break. Generally speaking if you speak in generalizations you're going to be wrong.