echappist

Well, they say context is key. The very same reason you don't crack off-color jokes in work place the way you crack them in front of friends applies here.

Enough of this off-topic babbling, now back to touching the hip to move people out of the way.

Actually, come to think of it, i don't mind it in a race as it's expected, but there was a d-bag rider who pushed my hip when we were both riding alone. I was going up a hill at the end of my ride, hugging the white line, and mr. touchy-feely said hi by passing me on the left and pushing my hip. WTF?

heppm01

This is a great, practical tip - thanks!

shovelhd

I've ridden plenty of races at the elite level so I'm comfortable with contact, both offensive and defensive. Offensively, you had better know what you're doing, and you better do in a subtle and non-confrontational manner, or you may end up like that Bethel elbow king on the side of the road. Defensively, it's more acceptable to me but IMO it's often unnecessary. If you're surfing wheels, and you try and take one and hear a shout, just assume it's you and back off. There's no need to decode the message or where it's coming from. If you take your hands off the bars for any reason, you had better have the bike handling skills to do whatever you have to do. That includes eating, drinking, removing clothing, ditching bottles, whatever. The issue is, I don't know whether you do or you don't. Touching another rider should be the last choice. Giving up a little space is preferred unless it's at an important part of the race.

waterrockets 

Accepted and expected behavior is quite different between the various categories. In a P12 crit, I had a guy lean on my outside, really hard, as we went through a fast corner. I counter-steered to resist a bit to keep us both on track for the most part. I still ended up leaning on the guy to my inside, and he countersteered a bit to keep me in line. We all came out of the corner, got upright again, and nobody ever said a word. None of us were scared, panicked, or in danger.

This same incident in a Cat 5 field would have resulted in an ambulance ride for someone.

Everyone needs to push their comfort level just a bit, but if you show up in a Cat 5 field trying to do the things you would do in a P12 field, it might not go like you planned.

Psimet2001 

Agree completely. I did it a lot this weekend but honestly it was that spidey sense that was tingling. Everything going well rider moving back because they are "pin-wheeling" or seeing red and although there is plenty of room to both sides you get that feeling that they are going to come over. They have that 20 mile ahead look and their head is straight forward and they are moving in a way that makes you uncomfortable.

Kind of like when you find yourself in the right lane on the highway and the driver that zoomed past on the left has for some reason slowed down. Now is drifting back enough for you to actually be passing and you are now in their blind spot ....and you get the feeling they are going to come over.

In each one of those cases a little reach out and a gentle back of the hand on the bone of the hip touch was plenty and works great. Most even say , "thanks" or "gotcha".

To echo the yelling thing...for those that have forgotten there is a lot of yelling in a 4/5 race. 90% of the time the person being yelled at has no idea they are the one being yelled at. Not only that but there is not one set of vocabulary used so...."inside" to you is "outside" to someone else. It's quite funny actually. The touch (sounds like the title of a self help book or something from the dog wisperer) is easy, clear to the person it is meant to communicate with, doesn't throw others in a tizzy with a bunch of looking around, etc.

I understand everyone's position. All I can say is that I have yet to encounter anyone who was ruffled up by "The Touch", and I haven't gone home with any phone numbers so I have a pretty good idea it isn't being mis-interpreted.

aggro_jo

when things get really tight I always stay in the drops to better protect my bars. From that position I can use my forearms and even just extended fingers to lightly brush the hip of someone who is drifting into my space. My hands don't leave the bars most of the time. Its just a gentle touch to let them know I am there and can't/won't move. It is necessary and should be accepted as a safe way to communicate.

I am not one for talking during races but I do feel that when things get hectic, it is beneficial to be reassuring; "dont panic", "everything's cool", "relax" can settle things enough to keep people off the ground . Last year I rode about 50 yards with my bars tangled with another rider in the middle of 73 others. There was simply not enough space to get untangled. By staying calm we were finally able to separate, compliment each others skills/dumb luck and continue with the race.

vjp

I only touch a hip if someone is moving over on me and I don't have room to move over for them. It was how I was taught in the 80's at Learn to Race clinics that we HAD TO TAKE to get our Cat. 5 license.

I did a few training rides (local, notorious hammerfest) last winter where someone touched me on the hip and then a few seconds later touched me again so I looked over and he indicated that he wanted to get in front of me. I thought maybe he was with a buddy and wanted to ride beside them so I let him in. The next week the exact same guy touched me again. And again. Then I heard him talking to a rider beside him, " I guess he is gonna ignore me". Which I did. Then he touches me again and I turned around and said "I think that YOU think that touching my hip means I am supposed to move over and let you in ahead of me, it doesn't. If you want to go ahead of me ****ing go, but get a clue."

zzzwillzzz

your right context is key. in a big open crit there should be room for everyone and if someones out in the wind they just have to suck it up instead of forcing their way in becuase their lazy or less skilled. in a tighter course your hand on their hip is better than their hip on your bars.

i like to stick my elbows out a bit to act as a bit of a bumper to absorb a bump from someone else, also the more timid are less like to try and take some of 'your' space

saratoga

Gentle nudge to let your teammate in?
This was from last Sat (not me FTR).



Photo by Dean Warren

mattm

^ bad cornering?

Brian Ratliff

One thing you can say about most Juniors programs, especially the elite ones... they know how to take contact.

shovelhd

They know how to wreck, too.

Homebrew01

Some of the time those doing the yelling are showing their inexperience, and should keep quiet & learn.

veloboy971

Well, in FL, the center line rule doesn't really apply even if they've yelled it at you 30 times (especially if you're a certain rider with a camera on their helmet).

Brian Ratliff

Just a warning if you ever come into Oregon... you get warned once, at the start line. After that, if you blatantly ignore the median, you'll be DQed on the spot. As in, the officials car will come up, pull you out of the pack, and make you ride back to the finish by yourself. If you refuse to leave the pack, the official will disqualify your entire team.

Racer Ex 

No sheet. When I do the mentoring gig with the 5's the first thing I do is tell them to STFU unless there's a flat or a crash. Makes the race so much calmer.

Really, you don't have a clue.

In Masters races we poke each other with our walkers.

Walter

saratoga

lol

waterrockets 

That's what that was. Holy crap. I was worried for a while.

shovelhd

Viagra isn't on the WADA list.

waterrockets 

That's disturbing too.

Still: walker + tennis ball + poke =

kensuf

https://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=3437666

shovelhd

Great. Just great. The spectators are going to love watching a pack of middle aged men racing around in spandex with *****s. Sales of SMP saddles will skyrocket.

himespau 

+1. I'd definitely need those words before someone put their arm around my shoulder.

Psimet2001 

Interesting choice in terms.